FireMattDoherty.com

[Hoop Fan]

all of you failed to mention the great Ryan Harp-btw what is our record since he was sent to the end of the bench?

yeah, give Doh credit (a raise and an extension), it only took him two years longer than the rest of us to figure that out. And even though i was never a fan of all the minutes Harp was getting early in his career, I am also not a fan of what Doh has done to him now as far as burying him on the bench never to be heard from again. Doh probably ruined the kid and then kicked him to the curb.

LOL, what's with all the hating? It's not like Harp wasn't given his chance to succeed. He had a far longer leash then most and just never performed. If you want to haze Doh for Harp, make it for offering to begin with, not ruining the kid b/c he's gotten substantial burn. Sometimes kids just don't make the jump, no harm no foul.

the last comment was a little harsh i admit, but it wasn't no harm, no foul. Either offering him to begin with or playing him before he was ready, and then not adjusting quickly enough, is on Doh. The implication i was replying to was that our improvement the second half of the season was a direct correlation to Harp being benched. Not sure i agree with the implication, but i do think Harp and the 7 man true freshmen class is a major lowlight of Doh's tenure.

[Hoop Fan]

no sir, my source was not a single post on this board. I thought Pats videos looked great and said so several months ago on this board. Not sure how I am disparaging Doh, though i have been pretty straightforward for years that I did not think he was the right hire at the right time for SMU. And 4 years later, I'm still not impressed with either what has been done so far or where we sit as a program looking forward. Thats not personal in any way, but if you don't like my opinion, kiss my you know what. And if you don't like to hear facts about Dement's record etc, thats your problem too.

I don't think you can compare Dement's record to Doh's record. Dement coached us in the basketball purgatory known as the WAC (no Memphis-like program over there). That's got it's own challeges, etc. but cannot be compared to coaching in CUSA. Further, Dement didn't exactly have to deal with DISD coaches that feel jilted that their "buddy" Jimmy Tubbs was fired.

There's been a rumor going on (was in an ESPNDallas article) that Doh's contract is 7 years, not 5, because Doh insisted that "that's the amount of time that it will take to turn the program around." I think that if you objectively look at the situation (where we were when Tubbs was fired, the amount of time it will take to build ourselves back into favor with DISD coaches, etc.), that's probably accurate, and firing a coach when he's starting to gain traction would be a mistake that sets our program back a year or two on the timeline.

Do I think that Doh has made mistakes along the way? Sure. I'll point to a few right now: 1) Hiring Milton Barnes. Barnes is a good guy who knows basketball, but he's not the most charismatic recruiter out there, to say the least. 2) Moving Malcolm Farmer from the Ops position to a coaching position. Farmer is a smart guy, but he just wasn't ready to be in a coaching position last year. 3) All of the roster snafus (Harp, taking 7 guys in one year, etc.). These mistakes have pretty much been rectified with the hiring of the Reggies.

i don't know if you were around but the WAC, even post breakup, was a better basketball league top to bottom. Tulsa was much better in those days than the past 5 years. Fresno State, Hawaii, Nevada had nice balanced teams that would probably win this years CUSA. And before the breakup, Dement went up against Utah (keith van horn), UNLV (Marion) and some damn tough TCU teams (Nailon).

[moodymadmen]

I don't know HoopsFan but think he, like I, is just a realist. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize:
A) Doh failed to implement his initial system, and finally figured it out (perhaps) in year 4
B) Doh failed to recruit to his initial system, failed to recruit rotation players from Texas, and failed to recruit Dallas overall
C) Done a generally lackluster job of managing his roster and rotation (see Harp)
D) Made Mustang fans suffer through the most laughable scheduling I've ever seen (the 6'5 and under Army team, Texas State twice, Occidental, along with schools I didn't even know existed...Florida Gulf Coast, Huston-Tillotson, North Carolina Central). Yet in a soft league and even softer non-conference gimme schedule we are still struggling to reach .500...
E) 14, 10, and 9 win seasons.
F) Doh has done a really subpar job with his coaching hires. His assistants have been a revolving door of guys that either couldn't cut it or didn't want to be here...that falls on Doh like it or not.
G) Doh is sadly the third highest paid employee at SMU at $546,229 and we are still not seeing a return on that investment

I don't think its Doh-bashing to point those things out, its just a case of observing the program and realizing "we are what we are"...and thats far below where we can be and where we should be. Perhaps Doh has gained "traction" and we are finally on the "right track" with the system and recruiting and assistants...but to us realists we just look back to the 4 year track record and don't see much reason for hope.

[CalallenStang]

no sir, my source was not a single post on this board. I thought Pats videos looked great and said so several months ago on this board. Not sure how I am disparaging Doh, though i have been pretty straightforward for years that I did not think he was the right hire at the right time for SMU. And 4 years later, I'm still not impressed with either what has been done so far or where we sit as a program looking forward. Thats not personal in any way, but if you don't like my opinion, kiss my you know what. And if you don't like to hear facts about Dement's record etc, thats your problem too.

I don't think you can compare Dement's record to Doh's record. Dement coached us in the basketball purgatory known as the WAC (no Memphis-like program over there). That's got it's own challeges, etc. but cannot be compared to coaching in CUSA. Further, Dement didn't exactly have to deal with DISD coaches that feel jilted that their "buddy" Jimmy Tubbs was fired.

There's been a rumor going on (was in an ESPNDallas article) that Doh's contract is 7 years, not 5, because Doh insisted that "that's the amount of time that it will take to turn the program around." I think that if you objectively look at the situation (where we were when Tubbs was fired, the amount of time it will take to build ourselves back into favor with DISD coaches, etc.), that's probably accurate, and firing a coach when he's starting to gain traction would be a mistake that sets our program back a year or two on the timeline.

Do I think that Doh has made mistakes along the way? Sure. I'll point to a few right now: 1) Hiring Milton Barnes. Barnes is a good guy who knows basketball, but he's not the most charismatic recruiter out there, to say the least. 2) Moving Malcolm Farmer from the Ops position to a coaching position. Farmer is a smart guy, but he just wasn't ready to be in a coaching position last year. 3) All of the roster snafus (Harp, taking 7 guys in one year, etc.). These mistakes have pretty much been rectified with the hiring of the Reggies.

i don't know if you were around but the WAC, even post breakup, was a better basketball league top to bottom. Tulsa was much better in those days than the past 5 years. Fresno State, Hawaii, Nevada had nice balanced teams that would probably win this years CUSA. And before the breakup, Dement went up against Utah (keith van horn), UNLV (Marion) and some damn tough TCU teams (Nailon).

How many years were we in the WAC pre-breakup...two or three? We didn't face those tough Utah, UNLV, New Mexico teams very often in Dement's tenure. FSU, UH, Nevada were teams that played like this year's UAB team, which is to say they are about even with UAB, Marshall, Memphis this year. I think UTEP could still beat them. (UTEP was good in the last few years of the WAC if I remember correctly). Still, basketball games against teams like San Jose State and the likes really made for some easy wins.

[CalallenStang]

I don't know HoopsFan but think he, like I, is just a realist. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize:
A) Doh failed to implement his initial system, and finally figured it out (perhaps) in year 4
B) Doh failed to recruit to his initial system, failed to recruit rotation players from Texas, and failed to recruit Dallas overall
C) Done a generally lackluster job of managing his roster and rotation (see Harp)
D) Made Mustang fans suffer through the most laughable scheduling I've ever seen (the 6'5 and under Army team, Texas State twice, Occidental, along with schools I didn't even know existed...Florida Gulf Coast, Huston-Tillotson, North Carolina Central). Yet in a soft league and even softer non-conference gimme schedule we are still struggling to reach .500...
E) 14, 10, and 9 win seasons.
F) Doh has done a really subpar job with his coaching hires. His assistants have been a revolving door of guys that either couldn't cut it or didn't want to be here...that falls on Doh like it or not.
G) Doh is sadly the third highest paid employee at SMU at $546,229 and we are still not seeing a return on that investment

I don't think its Doh-bashing to point those things out, its just a case of observing the program and realizing "we are what we are"...and thats far below where we can be and where we should be. Perhaps Doh has gained "traction" and we are finally on the "right track" with the system and recruiting and assistants...but to us realists we just look back to the 4 year track record and don't see much reason for hope.

You are a "realist" in a world in which you have created in your own mind. Fact is there were challenges that explain away some of the things that you have suggested. And if you don't appreciate how difficult scheduling OOC games is, I'd suggest you apply for the Director of Basketball Ops position at a CUSA school sometimes.

[Pony_Fan]

I'll have to agree with Hoop Fan. The quality of that league was better than what we have now. It was pretty competitive and typically had more than 1 team in the Top 25. Hawaii, Tulsa, Fresno were all decent. We would always lose to San Jose State away.

[moodymadmen]

"Fact is there were challenges that explain away some of the things that you have suggested"
Of course! There is always a sad excuse. As SMU great Don Meredith said, "If IF and BUTS were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmans."
Its the same sad song I heard for years in football, then we hired a man that got the job done and wasn't handicapped by excuses for failure. He had us in a bowl game, with a huge bowl WIN, in YEAR 2!!! And here year are near the completion of year 4 with Doh and conveniently, "challenges are explaining away" the poor record, the poor recruiting, poor scheduling, etc etc etc. Hopefully Orsini is as sick of excuses as I am.

[MustangIcon]

kind of doing my periodic review of recruits in our recruiting class-and found a February update by ESPN Insider on Leslee Smith. Was he always rated at 88 which is a pretty high score.

http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiti ... Id%3d82839

I think Smith was 86 or 87 and has been bumped to 88. Vilde is an 87.

For comparison sake, McCoy was an 88 when he signed with SMU.

[CalallenStang]

I'll have to agree with Hoop Fan. The quality of that league was better than what we have now. It was pretty competitive and typically had more than 1 team in the Top 25. Hawaii, Tulsa, Fresno were all decent. We would always lose to San Jose State away.

We always lose pretty much any away game. Away games have been a major problem for us for a long time.

[CalallenStang]

"Fact is there were challenges that explain away some of the things that you have suggested"
Of course! There is always a sad excuse. As SMU great Don Meredith said, "If IF and BUTS were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmans."
Its the same sad song I heard for years in football, then we hired a man that got the job done and wasn't handicapped by excuses for failure. He had us in a bowl game, with a huge bowl WIN, in YEAR 2!!! And here year are near the completion of year 4 with Doh and conveniently, "challenges are explaining away" the poor record, the poor recruiting, poor scheduling, etc etc etc. Hopefully Orsini is as sick of excuses as I am.

Perhaps the single worst comparison of our football program to our basketball program in this board's history.

What were the problems with football?
1) Recruiting restrictions placed on the program by the school's administration.
2) Recruiting restrictions placed on the program by the school's administration.
3) Recruiting restrictions placed on the program by the school's administration.

What are the problems with basketball?
1) We "wronged" DISD coaches by firing their "buddy," Jimmy Tubbs.
2) SMU is perceived in the community as an upper-crust white man's school with no diversity.
3) Those reputations are carried throughout the state and, indeed, the country, due to the ever-so-tight high school basketball coaching fraternity.

SMU could clear up the football problems and chose to do so when they hired June Jones. SMU cannot clear up the basketball problems...those are the sorts of things that will only go away with time.

[moodymadmen]

"2) SMU is perceived in the community as an upper-crust white man's school with no diversity."
So that has zero affect in football recruiting now after a stud recruiting class yet is specifically a major hindrance for Doh in basketball??? Give me a break. Excuses are the nails used to build a house of failure.
"SMU could clear up the football problems and chose to do so when they hired June Jones."
And they can't do that with basketball now why?? More sorry excuses and propaganda? SMU can clear up the basketball problems just like they did in football with the right coaching change...because THE problem is the coach, not these DISD conspiracies or perceptions that you speak of. Let go of excuses Calallen and bring something more to the table then that before I can lend creedence to what you say, otherwise your excuses are just part of the problem and not part of the solution.

[RGV Pony]

.
3) Those reputations are carried throughout the state and, indeed, the country, due to the ever-so-tight high school basketball coaching fraternity.

I thought the HS coaching fraternity didnt matter, as it's Big Shoe & AAU that calls the shots

[PonyDoh]

delete

[PonyDoh]

delete-sorry for the triplicate posts

[PonyDoh]

"2) SMU is perceived in the community as an upper-crust white man's school with no diversity."
So that has zero affect in football recruiting now after a stud recruiting class yet is specifically a major hindrance for Doh in basketball??? Give me a break. Excuses are the nails used to build a house of failure.
"SMU could clear up the football problems and chose to do so when they hired June Jones."
And they can't do that with basketball now why?? More sorry excuses and propaganda? SMU can clear up the basketball problems just like they did in football with the right coaching change...because THE problem is the coach, not these DISD conspiracies or perceptions that you speak of. Let go of excuses Calallen and bring something more to the table then that before I can lend creedence to what you say, otherwise your excuses are just part of the problem and not part of the solution.

Basketball and football aren't an apples to apples comparison, you should leave that argument alone, cause it hurts your better points. I could spend all day on that topic, and it's not one you're likely to make much ground arguing. Using that comparison, shows a fundamental lack of understanding in the difference between recruiting for the game of football, and the culture of basketball. Two completely different beasts w/different barriers of entry.

I don't have any issue w/your list of complaints about Doh's issues over the duration of this contract, particularly early. He didn't bring the right model, which is partly on Orsini FWIW. He didn't realize it would be a near impossibility to recruit to that model at this school either. Give another partial nod to Orsini there. The rotating assistants have been the worst problem for the program. Lutz hasn't had anybody w/his energy and commitment on the trail, so that falls on Doh as well.

Nobody has their head in the sand, but why live in what happened 4 years ago, when the program looks to be improving. Furthermore, you never ever list coaches that would immediately do better, while not compromising the integrity of the school/program?

Lastly, stop bringing up footballs recruiting class. It's a good class and I'm ecstatic they're on board, but the hoops class is every bit as good. Also, the recruit Texas mantra rings hollow b/c I know what's available in Texas every year, and after about the 20th player-30th player, depending on evaluation, it heads low major quickly. Does signing Leslee Smith, who is a Top 5 player in Houston, not count as Texas just b/c he's originally from BVI? I guess Pats is just a Euro, even though he's at CCCC. What you don't grasp is the Texans we passed on b/c we filled the slots w/better players. What you don't grasp is that a leader in CUSA took our scraps this past recruiting season. A kid who tried to verbal to us, whom we turned away b/c we had a better player for the ship. Recruit quality