FireMattDoherty.com

[moodymadmen]

Excuses for why Doh has struggled:
"2) SMU is perceived in the community as an upper-crust white man's school with no diversity."
Calallen
"Basketball is just a very different situation w/a completely different set of obstacles. It's a culture, not a game, and is far more politically/racially charged. There are no handlers in football, no traveling circuit etc. If the powers that be don't recognize the fundamental differences in a game vs a culture, we're destined to suck in hoops forever."
PonyDoh
I respect your opinions so let me make a counter point:
If these are two of our biggest issues to overcome, isn't Doh magnifying these very problems all by himself?? Isn't Doh the very embodiment of the SMU stereotype? Rich, "upper-crust white man", egocentric, wall street instead of street smart, etc. If his persona/image and "perceptions" are making it difficult for him to make inroads into the "culture" and the "politically/racially charged" aspects of college basketball that are so very important then aren't you proving my point that he is the problem??

[CalallenStang]

Excuses for why Doh has struggled:
"2) SMU is perceived in the community as an upper-crust white man's school with no diversity."
Calallen
"Basketball is just a very different situation w/a completely different set of obstacles. It's a culture, not a game, and is far more politically/racially charged. There are no handlers in football, no traveling circuit etc. If the powers that be don't recognize the fundamental differences in a game vs a culture, we're destined to suck in hoops forever."
PonyDoh
I respect your opinions so let me make a counter point:
If these are two of our biggest issues to overcome, isn't Doh magnifying these very problems all by himself?? Isn't Doh the very embodiment of the SMU stereotype? Rich, "upper-crust white man", egocentric, wall street instead of street smart, etc. If his persona/image and "perceptions" are making it difficult for him to make inroads into the "culture" and the "politically/racially charged" aspects of college basketball that are so very important then aren't you proving my point that he is the problem??

http://smumustangs.cstv.com/sports/m-ba ... gie00.html
http://smumustangs.cstv.com/sports/m-ba ... gie00.html
http://smumustangs.cstv.com/sports/m-ba ... ion00.html

[PonyDoh]

Excuses for why Doh has struggled:
"2) SMU is perceived in the community as an upper-crust white man's school with no diversity."
Calallen
"Basketball is just a very different situation w/a completely different set of obstacles. It's a culture, not a game, and is far more politically/racially charged. There are no handlers in football, no traveling circuit etc. If the powers that be don't recognize the fundamental differences in a game vs a culture, we're destined to suck in hoops forever."
PonyDoh
I respect your opinions so let me make a counter point:
If these are two of our biggest issues to overcome, isn't Doh magnifying these very problems all by himself?? Isn't Doh the very embodiment of the SMU stereotype? Rich, "upper-crust white man", egocentric, wall street instead of street smart, etc. If his persona/image and "perceptions" are making it difficult for him to make inroads into the "culture" and the "politically/racially charged" aspects of college basketball that are so very important then aren't you proving my point that he is the problem??

Moody, SMU is the main culprit here. The school's rep isn't just tied to the Tubbs fiasco, it goes far beyond that. Certainly, there are other coaches that could cut through the local bs somewhat, though most of which are pretty tarnished as candidates. Ultimately, as was stated in the Butler thread, this is about recognizing what we are and aren't as a program and university. We're always going to be a white, predominantly wealthy school, in the middle of Highland/University Park. We are fighting a losing battle if we try to match Memphis' street cred or whomever else. For that reason, we need a model and corresponding systems that make sense for this situation.

I've been very frustrated w/the Doh regime, especially early, and I could laundry list the mistakes just like everyone else, and probably add a few. The difference is that I now see a change in philosophy that makes sense for this program/school. We will never ever be able to go man up w/the recruiting class Memphis just hauled in '10, unless we're controlling tempo, maximizing possessions, and playing efficient offensive basketball. It's clear that methodology is the direction of the program and you'd have to expect we'll recruit for that system, as is evident w/our own '10 class.

Ultimately, another reason basketball recruiting and football recruiting is so vastly different is the numbers. Any given year, check out the Top 25 players in Texas and what you're likely to find is 10-12 high major kids , a smattering of mid majors, and then a serious drop off to low major. No excuses, we need a few kids w/some of those high major offers on occasion. That said, it's not going to be a steady diet, considering we're going against profile programs, in far bigger leagues, w/far more exposure and fan support. Nationally, over the past 10 years, you see roughly 10-15 kids a year, out of the Top 150 nationally, go to mid majors. So, people can complain about recruiting locally all day long, but it's not like we're regularly losing out to TCU or UTEP for kids we want and can admit. We're losing kids to A&M, Kansas St, LSU etc. We're literally battling the entire SW for maybe 20 kids a year, tops, in our backyard.

[Hoop Fan]

numbers may be limited, but there will always be kids like Sasser, Davis, Hancock, Ross types willing to give SMU a look if we had the right staff. A more recent example, there was a pair of guards at Kimball who were long, could shoot it and handle it. One went to Nevada, I think it was Giles. Would he have turned SMU around over night? No, but guys like that are part of a puzzle that can attract more and higher profile locals possibly. We are never gonna have a synergy or pipeline to LA or Oakland. Maybe we can count on June Jones high school for a few more bball recruits though.

[PonyDoh]

numbers may be limited, but there will always be kids like Sasser, Davis, [deleted], Ross types willing to give SMU a look if we had the right staff. A more recent example, there was a pair of guards at Kimball who were long, could shoot it and handle it. One went to Nevada, I think it was Giles. Would he have turned SMU around over night? No, but guys like that are part of a puzzle that can attract more and higher profile locals possibly. We are never gonna have a synergy or pipeline to LA or Oakland. Maybe we can count on June Jones high school for a few more bball recruits though.

Like I said, we need to land a few, nobody is debating that. It's just not going to be a steady diet when you look at the numbers rationally and the competition for those kids. When Sas, Davis etc signed, we were in a far better league, with better exposure. Also, I think we'll get a few of those kids in the '11 class. FWIW, does it really matter to you guys if it's Dallas vs Houston or anywhere else in Texas?

[moodymadmen]

Tough loss tonight. But close losses have become a common theme this season, in games decided by 7 points or less SMU is a dismal 2-10. That falls on the coach.

[CalallenStang]

Tough loss tonight. But close losses have become a common theme this season, in games decided by 7 points or less SMU is a dismal 2-10. That falls on the coach.

Typically, I'd agree with you, but the truth is that 1) we've had a lot more games that were that close but we hit enough free throws to distance ourselves - The Memphis win was an example of that; and 2) More than you can blame the coach, you can blame the fact that our point guard looks to shoot before he looks to pass.

[DickerJames]

When Sas, Davis etc signed, we were in a far better league, with better exposure.

The WAC 16 was a better basketball league than the current C-USA, but certainly not FAR better, and the exposure was no better than it is now. Nobody east of New Mexico could name more than 2 WAC teams. I would venture to say that most didn't know what it was.

[PonyDoh]

When Sas, Davis etc signed, we were in a far better league, with better exposure.

The WAC 16 was a better basketball league than the current C-USA, but certainly not FAR better, and the exposure was no better than it is now. Nobody east of New Mexico could name more than 2 WAC teams. I would venture to say that most didn't know what it was.

gotta disagree. it was a far better league, as was the exposure. You're talking about the MWC, which is a very solid hoops conference, w/snake pit gyms, in basketball first towns. TV deals were spotty like today, but regional coverage was decent, not to mention the last spot in Big Monday

[ponyscott]

Sorry I'm not on board with the 'upper crust white mans school in the middle of Highland Park' crap. So what? Look at other mostly white private schools around the country that are successful in basketball like Georgetown, Gonzaga, Duke, Georgia Tech, et al. Yeah we aren't in their Super conferences and they have tradition, etc but lets leave that out of it.
Gonzaga is in the middle of nowhere basketballwise and maybe we should emulate their success, as opposed to Gonzaga, we are smack in the middle of a very culturely aware and diverse city and have many opportunity's for interaction with people of like color etc. as well as playing ball with current and ex NBA players in the off season (try that in Eastern Washington or even Lubbock or College Station) with the ability to be in a major media market.
There is a good article in last weeks SI about Nebraska and Gonzaga and their interst in signing oversea's bbball players like Gonzo's Elias Harris, that would be Top 100 recruits here in the USA that they would never be able to even sniff. In January, the NCAA has approved Resolution 2009-22 which, if it goes into effect in August will allow foreign players who have played with Pros' but not having signed a binding agreement, to be eligible immediately in colleges around the country.

So the three recruits signed for SMU next year, which are all international in background, are just the wave of the future for schools like SMU. We can sniff major talent without pandering the local 'barber shops' or major shoe guys, with their elitist attitudes.



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/ ... /index.htm

[CalallenStang]

Ponyscott - never said that I agree with that view of SMU, just said that that's the way we're perceived in the basketball community. Reality takes a back seat to perception when talking about this.

I do agree with you re: signing internationally. I made the statement regarding the way we are perceived in response to moodymadmen's assertion that it is somehow Doh's fault that we can't get any big-time players from Dallas.

[PonyDoh]

Sorry I'm not on board with the 'upper crust white mans school in the middle of Highland Park' crap. So what? Look at other mostly white private schools around the country that are successful in basketball like Georgetown, Gonzaga, Duke, Georgia Tech, et al. Yeah we aren't in their Super conferences and they have tradition, etc but lets leave that out of it.
Gonzaga is in the middle of nowhere basketballwise and maybe we should emulate their success, as opposed to Gonzaga, we are smack in the middle of a very culturely aware and diverse city and have many opportunity's for interaction with people of like color etc. as well as playing ball with current and ex NBA players in the off season (try that in Eastern Washington or even Lubbock or College Station) with the ability to be in a major media market.
There is a good article in last weeks SI about Nebraska and Gonzaga and their interst in signing oversea's bbball players like Gonzo's Elias Harris, that would be Top 100 recruits here in the USA that they would never be able to even sniff. In January, the NCAA has approved Resolution 2009-22 which, if it goes into effect in August will allow foreign players who have played with Pros' but not having signed a binding agreement, to be eligible immediately in colleges around the country.

So the three recruits signed for SMU next year, which are all international in background, are just the wave of the future for schools like SMU. We can sniff major talent without pandering the local 'barber shops' or major shoe guys, with their elitist attitudes.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/ ... /index.htm

I'm not sure of your point, cause it sounds like you agree. Our rep is what it is. Instead of trying to work around it, recruit to it, w/a model that makes sense. No more apologies for being what we are. I'm all for euro's or americans w/euro skill sets. Screw pandering to local nonsense, that gives lip service, but then bad mouths behind our back. Recruit skills, not athletes

[ponyscott]

Ponyscott - never said that I agree with that view of SMU, just said that that's the way we're perceived in the basketball community. Reality takes a back seat to perception when talking about this.

I do agree with you re: signing internationally. I made the statement regarding the way we are perceived in response to moodymadmen's assertion that it is somehow Doh's fault that we can't get any big-time players from Dallas.

No problem CallenStang ...I wasn't dis-agreeing with you per se. I just wanted to attack the premise, as its outdated and biased. And if thats really the perception, then my point is to heck with them and go the International route. We are making headway with the local community again and it just takes one good recruit from local schools to open the doors. Its happening and the foot is already in the door now.

[RGV Pony]

having our first "in" w/ CCCC > than our first "in" with DISD, IMO

[moodymadmen]

"I made the statement regarding the way we are perceived in response to moodymadmen's assertion that it is somehow Doh's fault that we can't get any big-time players from Dallas."

Calallen, nothing is ever Doh's fault. Its not his fault we can't recruit Dallas, its not his fault we have 1 player from Texas in our rotation, its not his fault he perpetuates the SMU stigma, its not his fault we have yet to have a measley .500 season in 4 years on the job, its not his fault he is 47-73 at SMU and 26 games under .500, its not his fault his team is 2-10 in close games this year. Finally, I'm catching your drift.