Dement to ECU?

[Hoop Fan]

East Carolina fired its coach today. Would like to see Dement get a chance at that job, his alma mater. I'm sick of seeing coaching careers die at SMU. Would make for an interesting rivalry in CUSA too.

[OldPony]

They would be getting a good coach. Wait and see what he can do without one hand tied behind his back. I wish him luck other than when he plays SMU.

[Dement-ed]

Well, the sharpest of PonyFans might be able to deduce from my handle that I'm a big fan of our former coach. I also hope he gets a shot to coach at his alma mater, and wish him all the success in the world. (And there's some very good bass fishing out that way, and he's really in to fishing.) Good luck, Coach, Dement.

[EastStang]

He'd be back in his comfort zone in the mid-atlantic. He could probably recruit better there and ECU is low enough on the academic totum pole that he wouldn't have to fight with administrators over who gets offers. The ACC leftovers from North Carolina and Virginia would stock several Division 1 teams (i.e UNCC, UNCW, Hampton, Old Dominion, Richmond) all of which have been to the dance more recently that SMU.

[rich_alum]

If Dement is so great, then why did we get rid of him? If his hands were tied b/c of restrictions then why will Tubbs do any better? Dement certainly has much more head coaching experience.

[OldPony]

Time will tell. The recruiting so far has been no different. Some say that the Ponies are playing better but it doesn't show in W's. We let Dement go because the team quit on him last year. It is too early to see if they will do the same on Tubbs. Dement is a good coach, a good recruiter and a good guy to represent the school. He had a long run here to try to get it done and it wasn't getting done. It is likely that no one will until changes are made in academic requirements though. There are a lot of fans who believe if you don't win, fire the coach. The coaching hasn't really been or problem with 2 exceptions in football or basketball since the DP. Its all the other stuff and no fan or admin support.

[Pony_Fan]

oh please, why hasn't he been picked up by now then..

[Waz]

OP, you just gave Dement a great recommendation for an admissions director.

The kids quit on Dement for a reason and that doesn't happen very often in D-I athletics. Ironically, they seemed to quit quite often in the later stages of the season, Humph? No D-I athlete should quit during the season. He is either a quitter and unworthy of a scholarship in the first place or got driven to quit by the coach. We don't have a chicken or egg problem here, we have both the chicken and the egg in Dement. He either didn't recruit the right kids, or he drove them off. Either way not good. Don't forget that our system (SMU) currently forces us to expect a lot out of not too much talent. Tubbs' team is playing with enthusiasm (+) and with a purpose (+) and they are improving (+). That's three pluses that Dements last several years teams don't have and I am sure that there are more. What were Dement's pluses other than he represented the school well, and Tubbs doesn't?

My guess is that the era of recycled .500 coaches is drawing to an end in the mid major level that is trying to move up to the 'major' level aka ECU. Playing in a major conference and not having a major commitment from the school is why Herrion got fired. It is not just us that want to play with the big boys but don't have or won't give the funding necessary. The academic matter is a much different world that can be spun as an advantage or disadvantage depending on your needs. Advantage ECU.

There is a guy by the name of Doherty and another by the name of Gillen and then there is Cliff Ellis that did more with less, that all have close ties to Terry Holland. Dave Odom from South Carolina is also from NC and if promised a commitment from Holland may well go back to the start of his coaching career, which was ECU. That program may be a sleeping giant in the new and weaker C-USA. Dement? I don't think so.

[Hoop Fan]

I obviously don't have anything against Dement, I started this thread saying I wanted to see him get a job. I think he deserves one. But one thing I would say about Tubbs early recruiting results is how many Big 12 transfers or defensively gifted centers with huge potential did Dement get during his tenure? People compare Falls ranking with the Rack, but they are different type players. Ironically, Fall has both greater potential because of his body and quickness but he is also more ready to contribute early because of his size and shot blocking ability. Willingham proved he could compete in the Big 12 as a freshman.

I submit that those are better pickups than what Dement would have gotten had he stayed. Keep in mind I only started giving an opinion on Fall once I saw him play, this is not some blind Tubbs loyalty. The other thing that makes no sense when comparing Tubbs and Dement, its one thing to expect the team not to give up like it did last year, but its quite another to say they are post-season caliber. Even if the team didn't "give up" last year they would have had NO BETTER than a .500 record and this is the same team add injuries. Its early but Tubbs is right on schedule with both recruiting and coaching.

[Hoop Fan]

Waz, you really think ECU is a sleeping giant? I can't see any way in the world Odom would go there, and I know Doherty is desperate for a job, but I think he wants something a little higher profile than the new CUSA in the basketball world. He might have had an interest had Louisville and Cincy stayed around. Has Pete Gillen been fired from UVA? I can't see him going ECU. Maybe Terry Holland goes Jeff Jones the candidate Copeland like a few years ago.

[Stallion]

Mike Dement(+Tubbs) early recruiting classes were easily the best this school has had in any sport since the DP PERIOD. There simply is no question Hoop Fan-I really don't understand your fascination with a sleeper recruit like Bamba Fall-he is not ready to play Division 1A Basketball according to just about every single report I have ever read about the guy. He is at least a 3 year project-get used to it-you heard it here first.

[Waz]

Yes, I think ECU is a sleeping giant for the weaker C-USA. They like basketball there with the same or greater passion than Texan's like football. There are a TON of ECU grads in the state that have a huge inferiority complex with regards to 'THE ACC' that would one day like to prove they belong (someplace). They will support ECU in a big way if ECU continues to improve. ECU has a pretty young team that won some pretty impressive games and came close a couple of other times. With the dilution of the C-USA, they move up the ladder a little just because of the experience from moving up the difficulty scale when they themselves joined the league.

Doherty needs a head job to prove himself again. No place better than a team in a new conference with upward mobility. ECU won't have to pay him a huge salary, they know he will work to bring the program up to an NCAA level so he can bolt for a top 35, he knows the AD, he knows the area, and he knows the ACC mentality, which the ECU crowd admires but won't admit. Wanna bees to the max.

Odom has to be toast after his stint in SC. Shows what greed will do. He had no comp. to hoops at Wake and jumps in as perennial second fiddle to Holtz and football at South Carolina. He grew up in the area, started his coaching career at ECU and if he gets what he needs, he winds up with a job where he is appreciated, and can get to the NCAA every couple of years. He could close out his career there achieving unprecedented success in an environment that is great. I would guess that he is not strapped for cash, so he may trade some enjoyment for greenbacks. ECU is lobbying hard for the Big East, so who knows what could happen there.

Cliff Ellis, similar to Odom in why he would be interested.

Pete Gillen is about as unfired as you can get and still be employed. Great guy, hard worker, smart as a whip and not just in basketball and has great connections at 5 Star Camp with Garfinkel. He and Holland go way back and he is a basketball junkie. UVA suffers from the SMU academic restrictions, but not as severly. It may be harder for an athlete to get into SMU than UVA. ECU won't present any of those hurdles and Gillen would market the program all across the State. I doubt that he cares about the big big bucks anymore either.

Jeff Jones doesn't have the pizzaz. He has the tailored look but not the Blue Collar appeal of Odom, Ellis, or Gillen. Doherty would also have trouble in this regard. Just a thought. This will be the first time that ECU has hired a basketball coach where they really had something to offer other than 'a chance to make a name' for a good coach. See any similarities? This should be an interesting hire for sure.

[Hoop Fan]

uh, (+Tubbs) being the key. Who do you think got Sasser, Davis and Hopkins to come to SMU? You know as well as I do. Dement should be given credit for keeping Tubbs at SMU and relying on his relationships in the area more than Shumate. What happened to recruiting for those two years Tubbs left for OU? I'll say it and you of all people know this, SMU did not get a sniff from any high caliber local players, not even consideration.

As for Fall, if you're expecting an All-American, you'd be right, hes a 3 year project with lots of uncertainty. If you are expecting a defensive presence in the middle that SMU hasn't had in forever, you won't have to wait long. Opponents are not going to flip shots over this guys head unchallenged. Thats what I like and what I think is going to help this team compared to its present situation. Now tell me who says this guy is a D-1 project and why is in the starting lineup at Oak Hill with other D-1 prospects coming off the bench.

[rich_alum]

I was in the space that Dement brought in some really good talent. Hancock, Sasser, Ross, Poerner, Woods, Hopkins, W Davis, etc...... (1 or 2 may not have been Dement recruits..not sure) I just don't think Dement was that great of a coach. He seemed to have difficulty getting guys to play under control and play defense.

I really don't know enough about Tubbs at this point, but I think he will be challenged to bring in the same level of recruits that Dement did. Perhaps he can do a better job of coaching his guys than Dement. I don't know that he deserves as much time to get the job done though. His cupboard was not bare this year and this team has underacheived all year in my opinion.

[Stallion]

Everybody knows this kid is 7-1 and plays on the best team in the country and yet he is not rated that high and in fact despite the BS on this board didn't get many top offers. For example during the summer he was rated the No. 25 player in Texas(lower than the 3 stiffs Dement brought in his 3 year or so) and recently he was rated about the No 18 player in the entire state of Virginia after he was recently scouted by the author. I'm not saying he ain't a decent recruit for SMU but just that your constant overrating of his ability to immediately contribute will soon become very evident. It is very likely that he will be shoved around like a rag-doll next year. You need more than simply height to have much success at this level.