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From an article in the NYTimes on Georgetown's recent return to success and one player who was there to help with the revival.

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What Binghamton officials did not know, and what few have talked about amid this feel-good week here, is that Thompson and Broadus recruited a player to Georgetown who in four years of public high school in Delaware compiled final grades of F in 12 courses.

That player was Marc Egerson, who had a grade-point average of 1.33 in core courses like math, science and English. He passed nine such courses without receiving a grade higher than a C. As a freshman, he even failed physical education.

After redeeming his academic standing at Lutheran Christian Academy, a prep school in Philadelphia, Egerson took his stellar on-court credentials as a two-time state basketball player of the year to Georgetown. There, he was part of Thompson’s first full recruiting class of scholarship players who arrived in the fall of 2005 to help make the Hoyas a national power again. He played as a reserve during his freshman year.

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Academically, Georgetown is ranked No. 23 in the latest U.S. News and World Report rankings, and, according to the admissions office, its students have an average SAT score of about 1400 based on the traditional 1600-point format.

I'm wondering why is there absolute defeaning silence from the NCAA on grade washing? Seems to me there is an easy fix to this loop hole. Eliminate grade washing or at least limit grade washing to 1-2 courses from an accredited Prep School.

Stallion wrote:From an article in the NYTimes on Georgetown's recent return to success and one player who was there to help with the revival.

****************


What Binghamton officials did not know, and what few have talked about amid this feel-good week here, is that Thompson and Broadus recruited a player to Georgetown who in four years of public high school in Delaware compiled final grades of F in 12 courses.

That player was Marc Egerson, who had a grade-point average of 1.33 in core courses like math, science and English. He passed nine such courses without receiving a grade higher than a C. As a freshman, he even failed physical education.

After redeeming his academic standing at Lutheran Christian Academy, a prep school in Philadelphia, Egerson took his stellar on-court credentials as a two-time state basketball player of the year to Georgetown. There, he was part of Thompson’s first full recruiting class of scholarship players who arrived in the fall of 2005 to help make the Hoyas a national power again. He played as a reserve during his freshman year.

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Academically, Georgetown is ranked No. 23 in the latest U.S. News and World Report rankings, and, according to the admissions office, its students have an average SAT score of about 1400 based on the traditional 1600-point format.

Stallion, you know a whole lot more about the recruiting process than I do, but isn't there a clearing house all the athletes have to go through. I know both of my sons had to register with it.

Yes but what is happening is that by re-taking the core courses in a Prep School they can actually erase the bad Fs and Ds and replace them with A's and B's enough so that their core GPA is high enough for admission through the NCAA clearinghouse. I really have no problem with this if it involves 1-2 courses from an accredited prep school but I've seen a number of cases in which a player has essentially grade washed half his transcript.

Stallion wrote:Yes but what is happening is that by re-taking the core courses in a Prep School they can actually erase the bad Fs and Ds and repace them with A's and B's enough so that their core GPA is high enough for admission through the NCAA clearinghouse. I really have no problem with this if it involves 1-2 courses but I've seen a number of cases in which a player has essentially grade washed half his transcript.

How do they get past the SAT or ACT score requirements?

SAT requirements really aren't that difficult except for the kids that have very low core GPAs and would have to score what in the 850 range. I'd assume that a lot of those kids who can't score the minimal 700+ on the sliding scale are forced to go the JUCO route. BUT you can take a kid with a 2.2 core and grade wash enough courses to raise his core GPA high enough that he can sneak by with a minimal SAT.

and now you know a little more about SMU recruit, Bennie Rhodes. MT Zion is on the watch list, subject to be reviewed, as a basketball factory. Its barely accredited. I truly have a hard time believing Doh got Rhodes through admissions.

Beyond that, Gtowns' success is based on cheating, and always has been. It started w/the elder Thompson w/the likes of Michael Graham & John Turner. Patrick Ewing had to have his classwork read to him his first two years in Hoya country etc. They let more kids in, that can't be admitted to low-rung state schools, than you can shake a stick at. Jeff Green was uniformly rejected at Maryland, but gets into Gtown? The basketball team takes a ton of their classes, not at Gtown, but at the University of the District of Columbia, ru kidding me>

Now, John thompson is part of the grassroots Nike program. Think Gtowns compliance office tells him to stay out of recruiting for his son...I think not.

That basketball program dumps all over the schools academic mission statement and has for 25 years.

Stallion wrote:SAT requirements really aren't that difficult except for the kids that have very low core GPAs and would have to score what in the 850 range. I'd assume that a lot of those kids who can't score the minimal 700+ on the sliding scale are forced to go the JUCO route. BUT you can take a kid with a 2.2 core and grade wash enough courses to raise his core GPA high enough that he can sneak by with a minimal SAT.

What is SMU's SAT requirement now? When my son took his visit 10 or so years ago, it seems they wanted a score around 1000 or so for all the athletes.

mathman wrote:

Stallion wrote:SAT requirements really aren't that difficult except for the kids that have very low core GPAs and would have to score what in the 850 range. I'd assume that a lot of those kids who can't score the minimal 700+ on the sliding scale are forced to go the JUCO route. BUT you can take a kid with a 2.2 core and grade wash enough courses to raise his core GPA high enough that he can sneak by with a minimal SAT.

What is SMU's SAT requirement now? When my son took his visit 10 or so years ago, it seems they wanted a score around 1000 or so for all the athletes.

The SAT is now 3 parts instead of 2, a max total possible score of 2400. My guess would be 1400-1500 is an OK score.

smu diamond m wrote:

mathman wrote:

Stallion wrote:SAT requirements really aren't that difficult except for the kids that have very low core GPAs and would have to score what in the 850 range. I'd assume that a lot of those kids who can't score the minimal 700+ on the sliding scale are forced to go the JUCO route. BUT you can take a kid with a 2.2 core and grade wash enough courses to raise his core GPA high enough that he can sneak by with a minimal SAT.

What is SMU's SAT requirement now? When my son took his visit 10 or so years ago, it seems they wanted a score around 1000 or so for all the athletes.

The SAT is now 3 parts instead of 2, a max total possible score of 2400. My guess would be 1400-1500 is an OK score.

Some of the major schools aren't taking the third part into consideration yet according to a Wall Street Journal article that I read about 6 months ago. It appears to be more subjective and that is a concern from what I have read. They are waiting to get a track record before taking it under consideration.

the NCAA does not require the third part as part of its admission requirements. Of course, each individual school has its own standards for admission too.

Stallion wrote:the NCAA does not require the third part as part of its admission requirements. Of course, each individual school has its own standards for admission too.

Does the football team have the same standards as basketball?

PonyDoh wrote:.... Beyond that, Gtowns' success is based on cheating, and always has been. It started w/the elder Thompson w/the likes of Michael Graham & John Turner. Patrick Ewing had to have his classwork read to him his first two years in Hoya country etc. They let more kids in, that can't be admitted to low-rung state schools, than you can shake a stick at. Jeff Green was uniformly rejected at Maryland, but gets into Gtown? The basketball team takes a ton of their classes, not at Gtown, but at the University of the District of Columbia, ru kidding me....

I disagree. Had two friends who taught at Georgetown back then who said that Patrick Ewing actually worked pretty hard in the classroom. Michael Graham, on the other hand .... I don't know for sure, but they sure wouldn't come to his defense like they did for Ewing, who they said always got a very unfair bad rap for his academic work.

I'm afraid you haven't looked into this very closely. Georgetown has an abysmal record of recruiting academically deficit athletes no matter what your friend said. This isn't the first Georgetown expose.

Here's where you get two arguments. First, whether an academic deficient should be admitted, so that he has a chance to buckle down and get good grades even if he has to take a bunch of remedial ed courses, and if he flunks out, he flunks out, or whether he should be turned away before being given a chance. UT lets them in. A&M lets them in. Arkansas lets them in. ECU lets them in. UCF lets them in. Marshall lets them in. UNT lets them in. TCU lets them in. Georgetown apparenlty lets them in. I'll bet even Johns Hopkins lets them in to play lacrosse. Add into that the one year rent a players for the NBA who have no intention of graduating. I personally wish the footing were equal for all schools, but its not. So, when we make fun of the Georgetowns and others, let's remember, they make fun of us, every time we have to play them. If you get a few more illiterates leaving school after four years, then the NCAA might start another study commission. We have been at a competitive disadvantage for 20 years on this issue. I agree with the principle, but we have to understand that keeping our principles, is not helping us on the field.