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Lets face it, in today's D-1 Basketball, Freshmen are actually now impact players. Here are the two biggest issues as to why our freshmen are not.

1. We still do not have a starting 5. I like the fact that we feel like we are deep enough to keep playing guys, but the fact it, we have NO starting five that seems to work.

2. No Senior leadership is killing us. I am not and never have been a Killen fan. I thought last game he looked stronger, but it turns out is was just relative to the talent around him. I REALLY missed on Derek Roberts, I thought he was going to do something for us in his tenure.

DBB

Duke Blue Blood wrote:Lets face it, in today's D-1 Basketball, Freshmen are actually now impact players. Here are the two biggest issues as to why our freshmen are not.

1. We still do not have a starting 5. I like the fact that we feel like we are deep enough to keep playing guys, but the fact it, we have NO starting five that seems to work.

2. No Senior leadership is killing us. I am not and never have been a Killen fan. I thought last game he looked stronger, but it turns out is was just relative to the talent around him. I REALLY missed on Derek Roberts, I thought he was going to do something for us in his tenure.

DBB

Roberts looked like a freshman on defense, clanked some open looks and had a very bad airball. A lot of us missed on him.

Why does SMU not have anymore soph., jr., or sr's on the team? Most teams are not left with a void like SMU has? It seems like this always happens to SMU. Remember, SMU is not bad by accident. SMU is bad for a reason.

Duke Blue Blood wrote:Lets face it, in today's D-1 Basketball, Freshmen are actually now impact players. Here are the two biggest issues as to why our freshmen are not.

1. We still do not have a starting 5. I like the fact that we feel like we are deep enough to keep playing guys, but the fact it, we have NO starting five that seems to work.

2. No Senior leadership is killing us. I am not and never have been a Killen fan. I thought last game he looked stronger, but it turns out is was just relative to the talent around him. I REALLY missed on Derek Roberts, I thought he was going to do something for us in his tenure.

DBB

Doh didn't recruit any 4 or 5 star freshman or JUCO recruits and to expect this group to IMMEDIATELY produce seems very unrealistic to me. He did recruit some players with "POTENTIAL" and they did start to show something in the second half of the Centenary game. Our biggest problem is that we still don't have anyone putting the ball in consistently from outside. Hopefully, Walker and Harp will start doing this once they adjust to the college game. Killen needs to shoot a LOT more because he does have a nice shot. He has always shied away from taking it, however. He has to realize that HE is the SENIOR leadership on this team and the go to guy at the moment on the team. Roberts has been a big disappointment and appears to be losing minutes because he disappears when he is out on the floor.

immediately produce? Here what some of you dont seem to get, producing means wins over programs like Texas Tech or at least wins vs mid major foes such as Daytons of the world would be "producing". NOt wins against Southern and certainly not blowout home losses to low, low majors like Centenary. You guys act like that wasn't a complete shellacking last night and that the mini run in the second half meant something. That run was weak, only got us to within 15 or so, and Centernary quickly ran the lead back up to 22+ with very little effort. And they toyed with us all night. thats the truth.

NT has 2 TRUE FRESHMEN starting.

Hoop Fan wrote:immediately produce? Here what some of you dont seem to get, producing means wins over programs like Texas Tech or at least wins vs mid major foes such as Daytons of the world would be "producing". NOt wins against Southern and certainly not blowout home losses to low, low majors like Centenary. You guys act like that wasn't a complete shellacking last night and that the mini run in the second half meant something. That run was weak, only got us to within 15 or so, and Centernary quickly ran the lead back up to 22+ with very little effort. And they toyed with us all night. thats the truth.

I DIDN'T like last night's game any more than you did and I probably have much more money INVESTED in SMU than most on this board. However, these are FRESHMEN. The difference between high school ball and college ball is significant just like the difference between college ball and pro ball in any sport is SIGNIFICANT! A senior has more much more maturity and strength than a freshman does. Bamba, for instance, appears to be much stronger this year than he has the previous two years. Unfortunately our sophmores, juniors, and senior players are virtually nonexistant. We wouldn't have this problem if the previous two coaches had done their job properly and recruited well. It would also help if the fans and especially the students weren't so apathetic. An attendance averaging 5,000 fans or more a night might have helped our previous coaches recruit better players. For all of you that haven't attended any of the first 3 games and are complaining about the losses, I hate to tell you but you are PART OF THE PROBLEM!

Ponymon wrote:

Hoop Fan wrote:immediately produce? Here what some of you dont seem to get, producing means wins over programs like Texas Tech or at least wins vs mid major foes such as Daytons of the world would be "producing". NOt wins against Southern and certainly not blowout home losses to low, low majors like Centenary. You guys act like that wasn't a complete shellacking last night and that the mini run in the second half meant something. That run was weak, only got us to within 15 or so, and Centernary quickly ran the lead back up to 22+ with very little effort. And they toyed with us all night. thats the truth.

I DIDN'T like last night's game any more than you did and I probably have much more money INVESTED in SMU than most on this board. However, these are FRESHMEN. The difference between high school ball and college ball is significant just like the difference between college ball and pro ball in any sport is SIGNIFICANT! A senior has more much more maturity and strength than a freshman does. Bamba, for instance, appears to be much stronger this year than he has the previous two years. Unfortunately our sophmores, juniors, and senior players are virtually nonexistant. We wouldn't have this problem if the previous two coaches had done their job properly and recruited well. It would also help if the fans and especially the students weren't so apathetic. An attendance averaging 5,000 fans or more a night might have helped our previous coaches recruit better players. For all of you that haven't attended any of the first 3 games and are complaining about the losses, I hate to tell you but you are PART OF THE PROBLEM!

of course its part of the problem. But can you tell me why Dez Willingham is starting at North Texas on a 3-0 team right now. If you are gonna pin everything on the previous scapegoat, at least have your bases covered. You cant explain it because its inexplicable really.

I like Dez, and I hope he does very well up there at North Texas State. With that said, playing him this year would have been nothing more than a stop-gap that would delay the development of our young guys.

Hoop Fan wrote:

Ponymon wrote:

Hoop Fan wrote:immediately produce? Here what some of you dont seem to get, producing means wins over programs like Texas Tech or at least wins vs mid major foes such as Daytons of the world would be "producing". NOt wins against Southern and certainly not blowout home losses to low, low majors like Centenary. You guys act like that wasn't a complete shellacking last night and that the mini run in the second half meant something. That run was weak, only got us to within 15 or so, and Centernary quickly ran the lead back up to 22+ with very little effort. And they toyed with us all night. thats the truth.

I DIDN'T like last night's game any more than you did and I probably have much more money INVESTED in SMU than most on this board. However, these are FRESHMEN. The difference between high school ball and college ball is significant just like the difference between college ball and pro ball in any sport is SIGNIFICANT! A senior has more much more maturity and strength than a freshman does. Bamba, for instance, appears to be much stronger this year than he has the previous two years. Unfortunately our sophmores, juniors, and senior players are virtually nonexistant. We wouldn't have this problem if the previous two coaches had done their job properly and recruited well. It would also help if the fans and especially the students weren't so apathetic. An attendance averaging 5,000 fans or more a night might have helped our previous coaches recruit better players. For all of you that haven't attended any of the first 3 games and are complaining about the losses, I hate to tell you but you are PART OF THE PROBLEM!

of course its part of the problem. But can you tell me why Dez Willingham is starting at North Texas on a 3-0 team right now. If you are gonna pin everything on the previous scapegoat, at least have your bases covered. You cant explain it because its inexplicable really.

There is a reason that they are a PREVIOUS scapegoat. They weren't getting the job DONE! I wanted Tubbs to succeed as much as anyone, but it just wasn't happening because he wasn't pressing for the changes that Doh was able to get such as the building of the Crum Center to attract higher quality recruits.

Hoop Fan wrote:

Ponymon wrote:

Hoop Fan wrote:immediately produce? Here what some of you dont seem to get, producing means wins over programs like Texas Tech or at least wins vs mid major foes such as Daytons of the world would be "producing". NOt wins against Southern and certainly not blowout home losses to low, low majors like Centenary. You guys act like that wasn't a complete shellacking last night and that the mini run in the second half meant something. That run was weak, only got us to within 15 or so, and Centernary quickly ran the lead back up to 22+ with very little effort. And they toyed with us all night. thats the truth.

I DIDN'T like last night's game any more than you did and I probably have much more money INVESTED in SMU than most on this board. However, these are FRESHMEN. The difference between high school ball and college ball is significant just like the difference between college ball and pro ball in any sport is SIGNIFICANT! A senior has more much more maturity and strength than a freshman does. Bamba, for instance, appears to be much stronger this year than he has the previous two years. Unfortunately our sophmores, juniors, and senior players are virtually nonexistant. We wouldn't have this problem if the previous two coaches had done their job properly and recruited well. It would also help if the fans and especially the students weren't so apathetic. An attendance averaging 5,000 fans or more a night might have helped our previous coaches recruit better players. For all of you that haven't attended any of the first 3 games and are complaining about the losses, I hate to tell you but you are PART OF THE PROBLEM!

of course its part of the problem. But can you tell me why Dez Willingham is starting at North Texas on a 3-0 team right now. If you are gonna pin everything on the previous scapegoat, at least have your bases covered. You cant explain it because its inexplicable really.

Actually Dez is a bench player, but a good contributor with a 9 point per game average.

JayM wrote:

Hoop Fan wrote:

Ponymon wrote:

Hoop Fan wrote:immediately produce? Here what some of you dont seem to get, producing means wins over programs like Texas Tech or at least wins vs mid major foes such as Daytons of the world would be "producing". NOt wins against Southern and certainly not blowout home losses to low, low majors like Centenary. You guys act like that wasn't a complete shellacking last night and that the mini run in the second half meant something. That run was weak, only got us to within 15 or so, and Centernary quickly ran the lead back up to 22+ with very little effort. And they toyed with us all night. thats the truth.

I DIDN'T like last night's game any more than you did and I probably have much more money INVESTED in SMU than most on this board. However, these are FRESHMEN. The difference between high school ball and college ball is significant just like the difference between college ball and pro ball in any sport is SIGNIFICANT! A senior has more much more maturity and strength than a freshman does. Bamba, for instance, appears to be much stronger this year than he has the previous two years. Unfortunately our sophmores, juniors, and senior players are virtually nonexistant. We wouldn't have this problem if the previous two coaches had done their job properly and recruited well. It would also help if the fans and especially the students weren't so apathetic. An attendance averaging 5,000 fans or more a night might have helped our previous coaches recruit better players. For all of you that haven't attended any of the first 3 games and are complaining about the losses, I hate to tell you but you are PART OF THE PROBLEM!

of course its part of the problem. But can you tell me why Dez Willingham is starting at North Texas on a 3-0 team right now. If you are gonna pin everything on the previous scapegoat, at least have your bases covered. You cant explain it because its inexplicable really.

Actually Dez is a bench player, but a good contributor with a 9 point per game average.

There you go throwing facts at Hoop Fan, JayM. How can he totally bash Doh and everything he has done up till now if you do that.

Take the EXTRA DARK shades off. This is a legitimate class that we have not seen at SMU, probabl ever. You can not tell me that if these guys were the best players on good high school teams(which they were), that they can not compete with Southern, Alabama State and Centenary. Guys, NOT A SINGLE player on any of those teams was even on our list. It is not like wer are playing Duke.

FRESHMEN in college programs ARE impact players. There is not argument. If you want examples, I can list hundreds of them. Let me know.

DBB

Actually Dez is a bench player, but a good contributor with a 9 point per game average.[/quote]

He's listed on our roster on CBS Sportsline

mathman wrote:

JayM wrote:

Hoop Fan wrote:

Ponymon wrote:

Hoop Fan wrote:immediately produce? Here what some of you dont seem to get, producing means wins over programs like Texas Tech or at least wins vs mid major foes such as Daytons of the world would be "producing". NOt wins against Southern and certainly not blowout home losses to low, low majors like Centenary. You guys act like that wasn't a complete shellacking last night and that the mini run in the second half meant something. That run was weak, only got us to within 15 or so, and Centernary quickly ran the lead back up to 22+ with very little effort. And they toyed with us all night. thats the truth.

I DIDN'T like last night's game any more than you did and I probably have much more money INVESTED in SMU than most on this board. However, these are FRESHMEN. The difference between high school ball and college ball is significant just like the difference between college ball and pro ball in any sport is SIGNIFICANT! A senior has more much more maturity and strength than a freshman does. Bamba, for instance, appears to be much stronger this year than he has the previous two years. Unfortunately our sophmores, juniors, and senior players are virtually nonexistant. We wouldn't have this problem if the previous two coaches had done their job properly and recruited well. It would also help if the fans and especially the students weren't so apathetic. An attendance averaging 5,000 fans or more a night might have helped our previous coaches recruit better players. For all of you that haven't attended any of the first 3 games and are complaining about the losses, I hate to tell you but you are PART OF THE PROBLEM!

of course its part of the problem. But can you tell me why Dez Willingham is starting at North Texas on a 3-0 team right now. If you are gonna pin everything on the previous scapegoat, at least have your bases covered. You cant explain it because its inexplicable really.

Actually Dez is a bench player, but a good contributor with a 9 point per game average.

There you go throwing facts at Hoop Fan, JayM. How can he totally bash Doh and everything he has done up till now if you do that.

mathman, perfect name, you are splitting hairs because Dez played a valuable role in their win over OSU. And did you choose to ignore the part from JayM about UnT having 2 frosh starters? Since anything but numbers is probably lost on you, i'll tell you the real negative about Dez leaving. there is no upperclass and youth balance on this team. Looks to me like Roberts has probably gotten very discouraged about SmU choosing to mail in this season in his senior year and being left to lead a bunch of deer in the headlight freshmen. Go with the freshman, but better make sure they are remotely ready otherwise you have a season on the brink of something ugly.