PonyFans.com

posted this on the football board but want to say it here.

Local kids can drum up extra fan interest. But thats not the main reason to focus locally at all. The reason is basically networking. Players recruit other players as much as coaches do. You are never going to establish any recruiting momentum or loyalty at Los Angeles Westchester high school when you are SMU. You can get momentum at Dallas South Oak Cliff or Dallas Kimball. Quinton Ross was a a great example of the players we should be seeking out of Dallas every year. A nice prospect, followed Sasser here and became a pro, our first since Koncak basically. Without Sasser, there probably wasn't a Q at SMU. Without Willie D, there might not have been a BHop. Without Willie D, there would not have been a Sasser. They came to play with each other. Momentum begets momentum. You will get none at Westchester. Doherty is not thinking in SMUs long term interest, he is thinking in his own. Not surprising. Doh wants to be a national guy for the next job. That is what it is, but it has drawbacks long term for SMU. I am not saying do not recruit outside of Dallas. I am saying that you should have 4-6 Dallas kids on your roster at all times. No reason not to because there is talent here. Giles from Kimball is good example. You look at the city schools like Temple, Houston, DePaul, St Johns and others who have had some success with small fan bases and you see a common theme: Local players were always the core of their roster. Always. When Depaul went away from that they started sucking. You become a national program after you build locally first. Not vice versa. Only exception might be Duke and we ain't Duke or North Carolina. Plus whoever raised that point was silly, there is not enough talent in the Triangle for anything. bad example. SMU is making a big mistake by not focusing and building locally. Dement understood it. Not surprising though because SMU has no strategy and no plan and all around just doesnt get it these days.

Go to talk to the Cartel that is the DISD basketball coaches and their ring leader Goree Johnsosn who have equal blame in this relationship falling apart as we do. They held the Tubbs thing against us and Johnson pretty much made it clear that Doherty and his coaches wouldn't be welcomed in their arenas.

You are not going to hang us out to dry on this. This is a two-way street.

I see it as SMU screwed the relationship. Its one thing to say you are happy with Doherty-its another thing to claim that Tubbs was treated unfairly. How many Coaches get just 2 years to turn around a program? SMU poisoned the well. Its going to have to live with it.

Stallion wrote:I see at as SMU screwed the relationship. Its one thing to say you are happy with Doherty-its another thing to claim that Tubbs was treated unfairly. How many Coaches get just 2 years to turn around a program? SMU poisoned the well. Its going to have to live with it.

Well, you're opinion on SMU basketball will be disregarded because you have such disregard for the program anyway. You've said as much. Stick to football and football recruiting.

George S. Patton wrote:Go to talk to the Cartel that is the DISD basketball coaches and their ring leader Goree Johnsosn who have equal blame in this relationship falling apart as we do. They held the Tubbs thing against us and Johnson pretty much made it clear that Doherty and his coaches wouldn't be welcomed in their arenas.

You are not going to hang us out to dry on this. This is a two-way street.

well, you do need them more than they need you, thats what you and many people at smu don't seem to understand. We've done absolutely nothing to reach out following OUR complete PR debacle on the tubbs thing. The poor handling and communication was SMU's fault 100%. And what have we done since? I'll tell you this. Doherty better get the job done by going to the NCAA tournament within 5 years because his hiring, like it or not, compounded the image of SMU locally and exacerbated the problem. Slick, east coast talker, outsider, does not play well on the heels of firing a black coach after 2 years. Lets get a clue about the real world and perception. Rob Evans would have been a much better bridge following whatever obscure reasons we fired Tubbs. So Orsini took Doh, fine, he better get it done and get a payback, otherwise you have done long term damage and just look foolish on top of it.

Hoop Fan wrote:

George S. Patton wrote:Go to talk to the Cartel that is the DISD basketball coaches and their ring leader Goree Johnsosn who have equal blame in this relationship falling apart as we do. They held the Tubbs thing against us and Johnson pretty much made it clear that Doherty and his coaches wouldn't be welcomed in their arenas.

You are not going to hang us out to dry on this. This is a two-way street.

well, you do need them more than they need you, thats what you and many people at smu don't seem to understand. We've done absolutely nothing to reach out following OUR complete PR debacle on the tubbs thing. The poor handling and communication was SMU's fault 100%. And what have we done since? I'll tell you this. Doherty better get the job done by going to the NCAA tournament within 5 years because his hiring, like it or not, compounded the image of SMU locally and exacerbated the problem. Slick, east coast talker, outsider, does not play well on the heels of firing a black coach after 2 years. Lets get a clue about the real world and perception. Rob Evans would have been a much better bridge following whatever obscure reasons we fired Tubbs. So Orsini took Doh, fine, he better get it done and get a payback, otherwise you have done long term damage and just look foolish on top of it.

Neither of us know to what extent the inroads we have made. By bringing up Rob Evans, you've made this a racial thing, and that's a horrible argument.

I think Doherty's background speaks for itself. At one point we were going after Kimball's David Kyles but for some reason it fell off. Why? Was he not interested in us? Did his coach influence him to not consider us? He wound up going to Wichita St. Does that make sense?

I do agree that we need them and the fences have to mend. But if our efforts are getting rejected because of the Tubbs incident, then there's a problem on their end. If they want to hold sins bound, they will be held bound. I do know Doherty has been heavily scouting the underclassmen at Duncanville and DeSoto.

If you have this vendetta against Doherty, fine. At least come out and say it.

And you can see where Tubbs was just bringing in DISD kids by the truckloads when he was here.

i have no vendetta against doherty whatsoever. He didn't create this issue, but he is not doing anything visible to begin to fix it either. Or lets put it this way, no results. Are you telling me he's tried to hire an assistant coach from around here, but just can't? And I am not making it racial. The racial implications are there and have always been there with smu. Put your head in the sand if you want, i deal with the real world.

SMU f'd up. Remember the "Committment"...5 years...haha.... What a joke. Copeland should be blamed.... SMU shouldn't have hired him in the 1st place.

[quote="George S. Patton
And you can see where Tubbs was just bringing in DISD kids by the truckloads when he was here.[/quote]

One recruiting class as a head coach, bro. One. Saying he had any more than that is like blaming Doherty for bringing in Cameron Spencer for his first class. As an assitant coach at SMU: Sasser, Davis, Ross, Isham, Hancock, Hopkins. Don't go letting facts and history get in the way of your conclusions. Tubbs might have been very successful here if SMU realized where he needed support and done it. Admin? He wasnt a good administrator? That is easy to solve. The problem is SMU is like a government agency and has no clue how to zig and zag and get things done like a business would. TCU is a business. we are running a not for profit.

Hoop Fan wrote: Put your head in the sand if you want, i deal with the real world.

I'm so glad you're enlightened about this and we're just don't have the foresight you do. Drop the elitist point of view.

We absolutely screwed up hiring Tubbs. If anyone can tell me that four years ago we were jumping up and down over when he came on board, then I'll call each and every one of you a liar.

And again, those DISD coaches just funneled their players to come play for us didn't they.

All of us just crossed our fingers and prayed this would work and when it became pretty clear that this wasn't going to work, we had to cut our losses.

But I remember vividly how Goree Johnson shot off his mouth and said he would hold this against us and that Doherty wouldn't be welcomed by his coaches.

So when you've got that going for you and the DISD coaches aren't going to give you a chance, then it makes it hard to break.

Time will heal wounds, and I would hope that Doherty and his staff are attempting to do their part. And should that be the case, then it's on the DISD coaches to return the favor.

okay, if we've been blackballed from getting DISD kids I say we move on to kids from schools in Collin County & Tarrant County. Centenary had a guy from Plano (who incidentally did in fact shoot > 37% against us).

Basketball may be a sport actually better served to embrace PB's ill-fated (as it turned out) 300-mile radius goal.

All this having been said, this year's freshman class has seven. Two are from Tarrant County, one is from within a 300 mile radius of Dallas. That translates to an average of 2 or 3 out of every 4 or 5 local, or at least quasi-local kids.

nothing elitist about what i am saying. Quite the opposite.

Hoop Fan wrote:i have no vendetta against doherty whatsoever. He didn't create this issue, but he is not doing anything visible to begin to fix it either. Or lets put it this way, no results. Are you telling me he's tried to hire an assistant coach from around here, but just can't? And I am not making it racial. The racial implications are there and have always been there with smu. Put your head in the sand if you want, i deal with the real world.

While you generally make very good points you do tend to bring a racial element to discussions. To me race is irrelevant in creating a successful program. Whites should be able to reach out to African-Americans/Blacks, Asians, etc. and vice versa. I do not think Jimmy Tubbs had the necessary elements to be a successful Division I head coach. I think the two years he was head coach, the team underperformed just as they did the year Dement was dismissed. There was a total lack of enthusiasm surrounding the program and Tubbs unfortunately lacks the charisma to change that. As a result I do not think SMU should have hired him in the first place. That said, having hired him he did not get a fair shake and his dismissal was mishandled completely.

Hiring an Arifcan-American/Black head coach was not necessary. Race should never come into play in the selection of players and coaches or in any hiring for that matter. Maybe Rob Evans would have been a better selection than Doherty, maybe not. I think Doherty has the necessary skills to lead SMU to the promised land. I do feel that there is a great under-representation of African-American/Black coaches in sports. The problem is that there aren't more African-American assistants and offensive coordinators. I don't think that you should force a situation and hire a person simply base on the color of his skin, as was the case with Tubbs. He was not ready to be a head coach, but Copeland wanted to close the gap you talk about. Unfortunately he was not the right man for the job. I would like to see SMU and other universities reach out to more minorities to become assistants to be molded into head coaches in the future. Some of those assistants will be head coaching material, some of them won't. That is life. I think Tubbs was one of those people that did not and does not have the skills necessary to be a successful head coach. Doherty does not have to hire a Dallas area coach to add to his staff in order to build relationships, he can do that by simply reaching out. He will no doubt be rejected for a few years, nonetheless he should still make an effort in reaching out. As you have suggested hiring another Tubbs as an assistant would probably make this process easier and who knows, maybe this time SMU will land an assistant with the tools necessary to be a successful DI coach.

question. Did the team outperform its ability last year? Hardly. Is it outperforming now? Sure hope not. The sets we run now, the defense, the intensity, looks substanitally the same as the tubbs years and most of the dement years. As for the enthusiasm you speak of, where is it? Were you at the Prairie View game? Dead. There is no buzz about this team. Even when a team is young, you can feel it when things are building. Unlike the Sasser class, I don't feel it. and i promise you I am paying attention. I venture to guess I want SMU basketball to succeed as much as you or anyone.

How many DISD players did we sign while Tubbs was the head coach at SMU?