Professor X,
I have not posted on this site since I watched the SMU/TCU debacle on TV three weeks ago.
At that time, you had stated that you were going to post your observations on our BB program, but wanted to wait until after the Holidays....(holidays being Thanksgiving).
Well, Thanksgiving is long gone and I don't know if you ever posted your thoughts or not, but I respect your opinion and would like to hear what you have to say.
As for me, I was thoroughly discouraged by their performance that night.
I also think Doh made a real tactical error by signing 7 freshmen and not bringing in any JC big body help.
Don’t understand our aversion to JCs, but this ‘we are young, we simply need time to develop’ crap is really wearing thin with me.
XtC Request
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XtC Request
by SoCal_Pony » Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:42 pm
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SoCal_Pony 
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by The XtC » Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:59 am
I did say that, you're right, and then the next day the thread was deleted, and I lost interest. I've actually bitten my tongue and not said much of anything regarding the men's team, because I just didnt feel like arguing with people about it. My perception was very different from pretty much everyone else's and I didnt see any point in trying to argue with people who held drastically different beliefs, and who clung to those beliefs like they were money. I just didnt see a point. If you want I'll write down a few thoughts tonight and put them up tomorrow.
Try not to choke on the Kool-Aid.
- The XtC
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by SoCal_Pony » Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:01 pm
The XtC wrote:If you want I'll write down a few thoughts tonight and put them up tomorrow.
Thanks XtC, I would appreciate your thoughts....hopefully more than a 'few'.
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SoCal_Pony - Posts: 5901
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by The XtC » Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:08 pm
To begin, I think I’ve been fairly upfront that I’m not a fan of Doherty’s, and I didn’t like the hire. I can elaborate on that if you want, but for now I’m going to try to keep the topic focused on the team.
Around the time that the men’s schedule was announced, I was discussing the team in a different thread and disagreed with people who felt this year would be a big improvement over the previous season. The basis for my reasoning then was the team’s lack of experience. SMU returned just 5 lettermen, and no one who had started the full season. The 5 returnees had started 74 games between them, lead by Papa Dia, with 22 starts. On the roster we had 1 senior, 1 junior who was not on the team the previous year, 4 sophomores, and 3 incoming freshmen, and 1 redshirt. I don’t include Faye in that list because I really didn’t think he would ever be eligible, and I don’t include Kwiatkowski, because he’s a non-factor, and I’m not sure whether he’s really a freshman or sophomore.
After experience, my next concern was our inability to score points. A team that only averaged in the low 60’s against D1 opponents, and was held under 50 several times was losing it’s 1st and 3rd leading scorers (Killen and Roberts). I didn’t see anyone I thought could pick up the scoring void. Jon Killen had lead the team in assists and steals, also, but beyond all those statistics Jon was the team’s leader in the locker room. I think most people severely underestimated the impact of losing the team’s leader.
So, before the season began I really didn’t expect much from this year, team’s relying so heavily on freshmen and sophomores rarely see much success, and frankly I didn’t think our young players were as talented as everyone else seemed too, in particular Papa Dia. I realize he has put up decent statistics occassonally, but his stats are padded by big performances against the weakest of opponents, and games that we were already getting blown out of. Look back through his game by game stats and you’ll see big numbers against Paul Quinn and Rice, and in the blow out losses to Houston and East Carolina, but then he disappears against UTEP, Memphis, and TCU this year. The only time he turned in a strong performance against a team with a strong post player was the Tulsa game at Moody last year. I think he’s seriously over rated. Overall, I don’t see that this team has a preponderance of talent, there are just as many non-players as above average players, and the majority are simply average.
Having said that, though, we’ve now lost 2 games against teams with just as little, or less experience than we have, and arguably inferior talent. TCU and Arkansas-Pine Bluff both lost 4 starters from teams that had losing records last year, and were relying on freshmen and new players to fill important roles. TCU’s 14-16 record in 2007-2008 included a loss to SMU. UAPB does not have any seniors on their roster. People who follow recruiting tell me that TCU’s class was ranked equivalent or slightly behind ours, but they beat us decisively this year, and their season overall is going much better. When that happens, you have to look beyond the experience rationale. Not that lack of experience isnt’t still a valid issue, but now you have to look deeper than that.
When I watch this group play, I see a team that is floundering on offense and seems to lack direction. A team that knows how to execute their offense and has confidence in what they’re doing doesn’t get 4 shot clock violations against UAPB, particularly not in the final minute of the game. I see something that resembles a motion offense, but without backdoor cuts and without screens off the ball. SMU screens on the ball, and once the ballhandler passes the screen it seems like he isnt sure where to go. McCoy and Williams get a lot of their points by simply driving the lane after they come off a screen, when they act decisively they have a good chance to get to the basket, but if they don’t drive and just bass the ball around the perimeter, no one seems to know what to do. I never see any pick and roll, or pick and pop. Our post players have a very limited role, and we don’t use the height advantage we have over most teams. Papa and Bamba ought to be able to run a few basic high-low sets to take advantage of the size difference, but our posts only seem to do 2 things, screen on the ball, or post up. Once the ball goes into the post, it rarely get’s passed back out, we don’t seem to have people cutting to the basket, who would be open when the defense shifts to the post player.
I'm a little bit worried for Paul McCoy. He's a little guy, and when other teams realize how much of our offense revolves around his play, they are going to start hacking the crap out of him every time he drives the lane. He's going to get beat up, particularly on the road where the refs wont protect him.
I’ve read several people’s comments that Doherty doesn’t make in-game adjustments. From what I’ve seen, he seems to be following a script. He works out what he thinks the opponent will do before the game, and decides how he’ll respond when it happens. But if the opponent does something that’s off the script, something unexpected, he’s lost. Also, I think he makes adjustments for whatever went wrong in the previous game, he often seems to be a game behind.
I’ve also seen comments that Doherty over-coaches during the games, and I think that’s probably true. He cant seem to just let the players find their flow, theres constant minor corrections coming from the bench, and I cant figure out his substitution patterns to save my life. The substations are something that honestly boggles my mind, sometimes, there appears to be no rhyme or reason.
Free throw shooting has always been a pet peeve of mine, because it’s something that can be fixed with a couple of hours in the gym. The free throw line can tell you a lot about the effort and dedication level of a team, and individual players. When a team loses games because of poor free throw shooting, and does little or nothing to improve at the line, that’s a red flag that effort and dedication are an issue. It’s a correctable problem, and if a team’s players aren’t willing to put in the effort to change something that they know is a direct cause of losing, then those people aren’t going to win too often. It’s really that simple.
I don’t like our schedule, but I think I’ve made that clear in the past, and don’t see a need to go over it again here, unless you want me to. The 2 D1 teams we’ve beaten have a combined record of 1-16, and the 1 win is Alabama State beating Houston Baptist at our tournament. South Florida got Ray Mercer and Augustus Gilchrist eligible and able to play this past Sunday, but even with those 2 playing USF was pummeled by Vanderbilt and Niagara, they’ll finish in the Big East cellar, again. The only respectable team we’ve played is Illinois State, they’ll probably make it back to the NIT, again this year. TCU is doing decently, and could make CBI or NIT if they continue to improve. Colorado lost to TCU, but they beat Pine Bluff by 20.
That’s most of my thoughts on our current play, we lack experience and leadership, I don’t think we have particularly great talent, and I think effort is some times lacking. The question of whether we will get better hinges on 2 things, work ethic, and player retention. Will our current players stay, and will they put in the work to improve? I know that the popular view is that we need to recruit our way up, but there arent many scholarships to give this year or next, not unless some players leave, and that’s part of what I mean regarding player retention. Personally, I don’t see it happening, at least not right now. I don’t see players who are going to improve, I think it’s a real possibility that some will leave, and I don’t see a realistic chance that the departing players will be replaced by anyone significantly better. We don’t seem to be recruiting well in Texas, and I think the mishandling of Jared Dubois and Chris Clarke will cause us problems in LA and Detroit if we try to dip into those markets again. The one place where we still seem to have good connections is Africa, mainly due to the proximity of Mavericks scout Gallo Fall. That’s my perspective.
I know this question is inevitably coming, so I’ll answer it now. I’m not asking that Doherty be fired, and I don’t “give himâ€
Around the time that the men’s schedule was announced, I was discussing the team in a different thread and disagreed with people who felt this year would be a big improvement over the previous season. The basis for my reasoning then was the team’s lack of experience. SMU returned just 5 lettermen, and no one who had started the full season. The 5 returnees had started 74 games between them, lead by Papa Dia, with 22 starts. On the roster we had 1 senior, 1 junior who was not on the team the previous year, 4 sophomores, and 3 incoming freshmen, and 1 redshirt. I don’t include Faye in that list because I really didn’t think he would ever be eligible, and I don’t include Kwiatkowski, because he’s a non-factor, and I’m not sure whether he’s really a freshman or sophomore.
After experience, my next concern was our inability to score points. A team that only averaged in the low 60’s against D1 opponents, and was held under 50 several times was losing it’s 1st and 3rd leading scorers (Killen and Roberts). I didn’t see anyone I thought could pick up the scoring void. Jon Killen had lead the team in assists and steals, also, but beyond all those statistics Jon was the team’s leader in the locker room. I think most people severely underestimated the impact of losing the team’s leader.
So, before the season began I really didn’t expect much from this year, team’s relying so heavily on freshmen and sophomores rarely see much success, and frankly I didn’t think our young players were as talented as everyone else seemed too, in particular Papa Dia. I realize he has put up decent statistics occassonally, but his stats are padded by big performances against the weakest of opponents, and games that we were already getting blown out of. Look back through his game by game stats and you’ll see big numbers against Paul Quinn and Rice, and in the blow out losses to Houston and East Carolina, but then he disappears against UTEP, Memphis, and TCU this year. The only time he turned in a strong performance against a team with a strong post player was the Tulsa game at Moody last year. I think he’s seriously over rated. Overall, I don’t see that this team has a preponderance of talent, there are just as many non-players as above average players, and the majority are simply average.
Having said that, though, we’ve now lost 2 games against teams with just as little, or less experience than we have, and arguably inferior talent. TCU and Arkansas-Pine Bluff both lost 4 starters from teams that had losing records last year, and were relying on freshmen and new players to fill important roles. TCU’s 14-16 record in 2007-2008 included a loss to SMU. UAPB does not have any seniors on their roster. People who follow recruiting tell me that TCU’s class was ranked equivalent or slightly behind ours, but they beat us decisively this year, and their season overall is going much better. When that happens, you have to look beyond the experience rationale. Not that lack of experience isnt’t still a valid issue, but now you have to look deeper than that.
When I watch this group play, I see a team that is floundering on offense and seems to lack direction. A team that knows how to execute their offense and has confidence in what they’re doing doesn’t get 4 shot clock violations against UAPB, particularly not in the final minute of the game. I see something that resembles a motion offense, but without backdoor cuts and without screens off the ball. SMU screens on the ball, and once the ballhandler passes the screen it seems like he isnt sure where to go. McCoy and Williams get a lot of their points by simply driving the lane after they come off a screen, when they act decisively they have a good chance to get to the basket, but if they don’t drive and just bass the ball around the perimeter, no one seems to know what to do. I never see any pick and roll, or pick and pop. Our post players have a very limited role, and we don’t use the height advantage we have over most teams. Papa and Bamba ought to be able to run a few basic high-low sets to take advantage of the size difference, but our posts only seem to do 2 things, screen on the ball, or post up. Once the ball goes into the post, it rarely get’s passed back out, we don’t seem to have people cutting to the basket, who would be open when the defense shifts to the post player.
I'm a little bit worried for Paul McCoy. He's a little guy, and when other teams realize how much of our offense revolves around his play, they are going to start hacking the crap out of him every time he drives the lane. He's going to get beat up, particularly on the road where the refs wont protect him.
I’ve read several people’s comments that Doherty doesn’t make in-game adjustments. From what I’ve seen, he seems to be following a script. He works out what he thinks the opponent will do before the game, and decides how he’ll respond when it happens. But if the opponent does something that’s off the script, something unexpected, he’s lost. Also, I think he makes adjustments for whatever went wrong in the previous game, he often seems to be a game behind.
I’ve also seen comments that Doherty over-coaches during the games, and I think that’s probably true. He cant seem to just let the players find their flow, theres constant minor corrections coming from the bench, and I cant figure out his substitution patterns to save my life. The substations are something that honestly boggles my mind, sometimes, there appears to be no rhyme or reason.
Free throw shooting has always been a pet peeve of mine, because it’s something that can be fixed with a couple of hours in the gym. The free throw line can tell you a lot about the effort and dedication level of a team, and individual players. When a team loses games because of poor free throw shooting, and does little or nothing to improve at the line, that’s a red flag that effort and dedication are an issue. It’s a correctable problem, and if a team’s players aren’t willing to put in the effort to change something that they know is a direct cause of losing, then those people aren’t going to win too often. It’s really that simple.
I don’t like our schedule, but I think I’ve made that clear in the past, and don’t see a need to go over it again here, unless you want me to. The 2 D1 teams we’ve beaten have a combined record of 1-16, and the 1 win is Alabama State beating Houston Baptist at our tournament. South Florida got Ray Mercer and Augustus Gilchrist eligible and able to play this past Sunday, but even with those 2 playing USF was pummeled by Vanderbilt and Niagara, they’ll finish in the Big East cellar, again. The only respectable team we’ve played is Illinois State, they’ll probably make it back to the NIT, again this year. TCU is doing decently, and could make CBI or NIT if they continue to improve. Colorado lost to TCU, but they beat Pine Bluff by 20.
That’s most of my thoughts on our current play, we lack experience and leadership, I don’t think we have particularly great talent, and I think effort is some times lacking. The question of whether we will get better hinges on 2 things, work ethic, and player retention. Will our current players stay, and will they put in the work to improve? I know that the popular view is that we need to recruit our way up, but there arent many scholarships to give this year or next, not unless some players leave, and that’s part of what I mean regarding player retention. Personally, I don’t see it happening, at least not right now. I don’t see players who are going to improve, I think it’s a real possibility that some will leave, and I don’t see a realistic chance that the departing players will be replaced by anyone significantly better. We don’t seem to be recruiting well in Texas, and I think the mishandling of Jared Dubois and Chris Clarke will cause us problems in LA and Detroit if we try to dip into those markets again. The one place where we still seem to have good connections is Africa, mainly due to the proximity of Mavericks scout Gallo Fall. That’s my perspective.
I know this question is inevitably coming, so I’ll answer it now. I’m not asking that Doherty be fired, and I don’t “give himâ€
Try not to choke on the Kool-Aid.
- The XtC
- Posts: 1213
- Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 10:19 pm
by The XtC » Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:46 pm
P.S.
Yes, it was a mistake to sign 7 freshmen in 1 class. It's a mistake to unbalance your classes that way. And, if TK and Bennie were't going to play anymore than they did, they should have been redshirted. It's terrible mismanagement of the roster.
Yes, it was a mistake to sign 7 freshmen in 1 class. It's a mistake to unbalance your classes that way. And, if TK and Bennie were't going to play anymore than they did, they should have been redshirted. It's terrible mismanagement of the roster.
Try not to choke on the Kool-Aid.
- The XtC
- Posts: 1213
- Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 10:19 pm
by A-town Pony » Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:12 pm
Well put XtC. I couldn't agree more. I especially agree with your free throws assessment for how it translates directly the mental toughness of a team.
Show me a team that misses free throws and I'll show you a team that doesn't mind losing.
Show me a team that misses free throws and I'll show you a team that doesn't mind losing.
- A-town Pony
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by SoCal_Pony » Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:23 pm
Thanks XtC for well thought out response.
Very Astute Observations.
Very Astute Observations.
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by MustangIcon » Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:51 am
it was not just the level of effort and intensity being high. the talent level, combined with that intensity and effort, is such that we belonged on that floor playing that big 12 team. a crappy team can bust its tail all night and never have a real shot. inside of 4 minutes left in the game last night it was still in question as to who would win.
this team has potential and showed it last night. if they fight hard in conference the way they did last night, we will have some success.
this team has potential and showed it last night. if they fight hard in conference the way they did last night, we will have some success.
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