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it just kills me watching this A&M/Baylor game and seeing Acy (Mesquite Horn) and Davis (Grand Prairie) go head to head. Add either one of these guys to our team and things are very different.

guess I should add Rogers (S Oak Cliff) to that group too.....

Go Grand Prairie! I think part of the deal to get him was to take his uncle on the coaching staff (ie Beasleys AAU coach at KState)

There are plenty of good players in the area...the problem is all their handlers have interests ($$) elsewhere.

SMU needs an image makeover to retain the local talent. On the court and off the court.

I am laughing at Erion's footer....poor Fitz.

Shumate was the ultimate jerk. I don't know what you guys thought of him personally.

That 1992-93 team got to the NCAA tournament in spite of him and not because of him. I still think Greg Lewis and Tim Mason rallied the troops and said, "screw him. we can do this without his help.''

I liked Shu personally...but had a low opinion of his coaching. I thought Dement had it in him to be a good coach...but couldnt stand him...and I think the feeling was mutual.

And youre right...Mase is my biz partner and he talks about that all the time...how they won in spite of him. And I tell him its all his fault that we sucked so bad the next year because Shu had a false sense of superiority after that title. So to pay it back...Mase is now my man-servant.

Kinzer...next time you see Fitz...ask him about Baylor.

I think until the NCAA deals with some of the AAU or other club czar antics, college basketball recruiting is what it is. HS coaches basically are irrelevant because if the Club Czar thinks his kid is getting short shrift, the kid suddenly moves in with his grandparents, uncle, aunt, etc., and transfers to a school with a more compliant coach. Hence, that is why Tubbs who was so wired into the DISD did not land any big fish because the HS coaches can't deliver. Shoe companies are pulling the strings of these Czars and they know that the more stud kids end up on a Nike Club, or a Reebok club, the more likely their shoes get picked up by colleges. Because we have had some issues with the NCAA in the past, we are forced to stay beyond clean. Thus schools can cut deals with these quasi-agents to rent a kid for a year to two years until the kid is eligible for the NBA and the NCAA isn't going to do a thing about it, at least until they decide to make an example out of Gonzaga, Southern Illinois, or some other school that the BCS conference schools want cut down a notch. The question is what can SMU do to be better situated to deal with these issues. I think Doherty has some good relationships with some of the non-local guys in Chicago, LA and New York and that is why he is fishing in those waters for the most part. I think unless the kid wants to play in the ACC or the BE, Barnes, Self and Drew seem to have the AAU guys on a string around Texas.

EastStang you nailed it. Most clubs are run by the shoe companies and forced to participate when they come calling. I just posted something about Heroes Basketball...and its the anti-AAU team.

Cuban is one of the major sponsors and despises club ball and we are on a mission to prove to him that it can be done the right way.

Some players are persuaded by others with the promise of Nike this or Adidas that. Lebron camp, etc etc. Those players will not be Heroes. We want the kid with character and good attitude who wants to do better on the court and in life.

And with proper training...they can beat the big boys. (see Cedar Hill vs Duncanville U last week) The coach at Cedar Hill also coaches w/the Heroes 2010 team and we have 5 or 6 CH players in the program. I can go on for days about all the great things we're doing there...

Erion wrote:EastStang you nailed it. Most clubs are run by the shoe companies and forced to participate when they come calling. I just posted something about Heroes Basketball...and its the anti-AAU team.

Cuban is one of the major sponsors and despises club ball and we are on a mission to prove to him that it can be done the right way.

Some players are persuaded by others with the promise of Nike this or Adidas that. Lebron camp, etc etc. Those players will not be Heroes. We want the kid with character and good attitude who wants to do better on the court and in life.

And with proper training...they can beat the big boys. (see Cedar Hill vs Duncanville U last week) The coach at Cedar Hill also coaches w/the Heroes 2010 team and we have 5 or 6 CH players in the program. I can go on for days about all the great things we're doing there...

In my dealings with David Milson, he always gave the appearance of being a good person. And he certainly had his trials with the Horton clan, especially Dad Horton.

Holy moly, this conversation is funny. A little knowledge is a dangerous tool as it can cut off your hand. At one point, I was seminal in starting what ultimately became an Adidas flagship. I know the AAU game inside and out, fundraised, sought sponsorship, competed regionally and then went national. We're responsible for countless kids getting ships and their education paid for etc. It's like some of you read Sole Influence and think you have a clue about what actually happens. Erion, I appreciate what you're trying to do w/Heroes, but don't indict an entire system b/c of maybe 16 elite flagships, on each circuit.

Not trying to be offensive, but SMU is pretty far removed from the shoe game and its influence. It's applicable at the highest level, no doubt, I've been there. Until we get to a point where Top 30 kids are in our sights, there is limited funny play, unless you consider leveraging a problem. Didn't hear people crying when we wasted a ship on Ryan Hopkins. How is that any better then just buying a kid via Nike? Pretty much, we gave that family 100k plus in an undeserved education, so the other kid could star at the point.

When you go to what was Big Time, or Main Event/Super 64 etc, how many teams actually had a shot at winning, reaching the Elite 8 etc. Got news, AAU is mostly teams that fund travel w/parent contributions and friggin bake sales etc. Sure, the elite teams have grassroots deals, but that''s the price of business travel and offsetting costs.

We can get into this all day, but to blame SMUs issues on AAU/handlers etc is absurd. If anything, Doh is the most well-schooled coach we've ever had, in the shady ways of grassroots hoops. Think Carolina.

Also, and this no small point, did any of you wonder why there has been a consistent rise in the quality of mid major hoops? Ever wonder why more mid-majors are ranked now, then ever before, and why they make legit runs in the tourney?

It's called one-stop shopping. W/summer basketball being an ever increasing presence, particularly the open evaluation periods, schools w/limited recruiting budgets, can go to one location, and scout like their jobs depend on it. Bad evaluations are down, and smaller schools don't have to pay to go to hundreds of high school games, open gyms, the country over. In short, there won't be a major crack down b/c the coaches like the system and so does the bottom line of the expense spread.

Next, someone will tell us how AAU ball & Sportscenter has destroyed fundamentals, despite the best players in the NBA being kids groomed on AAU, not college ball.

I by no means want to indict an entire system...that would be as irresponsible as indicting an entire race for the actions of a few. I know some pretty good guys in the game.

I also know there are some devils in the biz. And I dont think SMUs problem is solely because they dont do shady deals...(because Im not convinced ANY program is 100% clean)

I liken the summer circuit to the stock market. As a whole...it can be a good thing where a lot of well-intentioned people can benefit. But the integrity of the whole system can be compromised by the actions of a few heavyweights...

Erion wrote:I by no means want to indict an entire system...that would be as irresponsible as indicting an entire race for the actions of a few. I know some pretty good guys in the game.

I also know there are some devils in the biz. And I dont think SMUs problem is solely because they dont do shady deals...(because Im not convinced ANY program is 100% clean)

I liken the summer circuit to the stock market. As a whole...it can be a good thing where a lot of well-intentioned people can benefit. But the integrity of the whole system can be compromised by the actions of a few heavyweights...

That's not unfair, but it describes any lucrative business on the planet. Ultimately, corruption exists. Do away w/AAU ball and the devil you don't know rears its head. The bottom line is that handlers, posses, street urchins and hangers-on, existed well before AAU ball. Simply, there is money to made, and enterprising minds are going to make it, one way or another. Its better then having to pay the local drug dealer to deliver a kid or his family 'suffers' etc. I've seen and heard it all, going back to Wooden, and dealing w/Nike/Adidas/Reebok is generally speaking, a far more savory experience then much of what's out there.

Erion, hypothetically, if Cuban wasn't funding, what happens when the "Heroes' program is approached by Nike Grassroots to the tune of a couple hundred K? Money to support your infrastructure of doing good deeds, educating kids, helping fund their mentoring, facilities, payroll and infrastructure? Gonna pass it up? If so, are you hurting the kids?

Thats the conundrum (or dichotomy...english majors help me!) that exists with this "business".

And to your point...Im not going to turn it down as we are looking for proper ways to partner w/Nike, UnderArmour, Gatorade...whoever! But just because you receive assistance...doesnt mean you have to sell your soul.

The difference we hope to make is to actually have the resources dedicated to our programs, costs, travel, etc. I will also not encourage a kid to attend a school solely because of who their sponsor is or how much $$ a coach promises me/them. Because at the end of the day...thats someone's future...and Ive seen far too many kids pushed in the wrong direction when it comes to these decisions.

We are all about year round development...on and off the court. The better prepared they are for the siren song of recruiters and handlers...the better decision they can make.

By the way...sounds like you have a deep understanding of this biz...would love to pick your brain about the good and bad of what youve learned/seen.

Erion wrote:By the way...sounds like you have a deep understanding of this biz...would love to pick your brain about the good and bad of what youve learned/seen.

Hey, I'm really interested in speaking w/you. I'm going to send a PM, and let's get on the horn.