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This is not a direct comparison of Scott Drew/Doh or Big 12/CUSA........
Apples and Oranges, but on different playing fields you can compare some similarities.

Drew has had some top recruiting classes at Baylor for sometime now, yet they are only 4-8 in conf play. I know the big 12 is great this year, and the South is the tougher division, but why haven't these top recruits made a bigger impact yet?

Again not comparing the two directly, (and I hope Doh can pull it off here even though sometimes I don't understand the method of his madness) but I wonder what that says about our time line to rebuild our program.

ponydawg wrote:This is not a direct comparison of Scott Drew/Doh or Big 12/CUSA........
Apples and Oranges, but on different playing fields you can compare some similarities.

Drew has had some top recruiting classes at Baylor for sometime now, yet they are only 4-8 in conf play. I know the big 12 is great this year, and the South is the tougher division, but why haven't these top recruits made a bigger impact yet?

Again not comparing the two directly, (and I hope Doh can pull it off here even though sometimes I don't understand the method of his madness) but I wonder what that says about our time line to rebuild our program.

Outside of their loss to Texas Tech in Lubbock, all of Baylor's conference losses are to teams that will play in either the NCAA or NIT tournies.

That is a far cry from SMU's conference losses.

01/14/09 at Texas A&M * College Station, Texas L, 84-73
01/17/09 vs. Oklahoma State * Waco, Texas W, 98-92 (OT)
01/21/09 at Kansas State * Manhattan, Kan. W, 83-65
01/24/09 at Oklahoma Norman, Okla. L, 95-76
01/27/09 vs. Texas * Waco, Texas L, 78-72
01/31/09 at Missouri Columbia, Mo. L, 89-72
02/02/09 vs. Kansas * Waco, Texas L, 75-65
02/07/09 at Texas Tech Lubbock, Texas L, 83-76
02/11/09 vs. Oklahoma Waco, Texas L, 78-63
02/14/09 vs. Texas A&M * Waco, Texas W, 72-68
02/21/09 at Oklahoma State * Stillwater, Okla

Kansas 12-1 23-5
Oklahoma 11-2 25-3
Missouri 10-2 23-4
Kansas State 7-5 19-8
Texas 7-5 18-8
Oklahoma State 6-6 17-9
Nebraska 6-6 16-9
Texas A&M 5-7 19-8
Baylor 4-8 16-10

SoCal_Pony wrote:Outside of their loss to Texas Tech in Lubbock, all of Baylor's conference losses are to teams that will play in either the NCAA or NIT tournies.

That is a far cry from SMU's conference losses.

Completely agree, as I stated the Big 12 south is stacked. Let me rephrase.
Has Baylor had the same type of recruiting classes that they are competing against (for the most part)? Has SMU had the same type of classes that we are competing against (for the most part)? If that is the case and they have similar players competing (big 12 against big 12 and CUSA against CUSA), what is baylor missing? Another great recruiting class? Better X's and O's? Still lacking confidence from the history and the Bliss issue? I would think the players are there, I haven't seen a lot of games but none of Drew's coaching has baffled me.

I think Drew is doing a very good job @ Baylor.
They have turned the corner in my opinion & are headed in the right direction. Just take a look @ all the top recruits they are in on.
They currently have an rpi of 57.
We are @ 267.

papawasamustang wrote:I think Drew is doing a very good job @ Baylor.
They have turned the corner in my opinion & are headed in the right direction. Just take a look @ all the top recruits they are in on.
They currently have an rpi of 57.
We are @ 267.

He isn't asking for a comparison of Baylor's rpi vs SMU's. Baylor's program is FAR AND AWAY better right now than we can even dream of.

Rather he is saying, they have in fact recruited quite well over the past 4 seasons (and are continuing to do so in 2009 and 2010) and is curious whether or not they should be getting better results this year considering how great their recruiting has been. For point of reference, per rivals:

2005 (current seniors)- 2 4stars, 4 3stars
2006 (current juniors)- 3 4stars
2007 (current sophs)- 1 4star, 1 3star, 1 2star
2008 (current frosh)- 2 4star, 1 3star, 1 unrated altho offers from OU, OSU, KU, ie a top recruit

Drew needs to teach some defense. Recruits & talent can be neutralized by only playing one end of the court, showing no discipline, and lacking game savvy. Drew can recruit, and knows how to operate in grey areas, but I'm not sure he can teach the game, yet.

PonyDoh wrote: Drew knows how to operate in grey areas.

You hit the nail on the head there, buddy.

MustangIcon wrote:

papawasamustang wrote:I think Drew is doing a very good job @ Baylor.
They have turned the corner in my opinion & are headed in the right direction. Just take a look @ all the top recruits they are in on.
They currently have an rpi of 57.
We are @ 267.

He isn't asking for a comparison of Baylor's rpi vs SMU's. Baylor's program is FAR AND AWAY better right now than we can even dream of.

Rather he is saying, they have in fact recruited quite well over the past 4 seasons (and are continuing to do so in 2009 and 2010) and is curious whether or not they should be getting better results this year considering how great their recruiting has been. For point of reference, per rivals:

2005 (current seniors)- 2 4stars, 4 3stars
2006 (current juniors)- 3 4stars
2007 (current sophs)- 1 4star, 1 3star, 1 2star
2008 (current frosh)- 2 4star, 1 3star, 1 unrated altho offers from OU, OSU, KU, ie a top recruit

MustangIcon,

I guess I need to explain it a little better for you so u don't have to correct me like my Daddy used to.

57 RPI is very good for their program. Tough schedule, tough league, overall winning record. Big improvement. I'd take their situation over ours in a heartbeat.

I made a comment several months ago about a conversation I had with a college HC. We talked about Rivals & Scout's rankings. In a nutshell he called BS to their rankings for anyone not ranked a 5 star and the majority of 4's. 3's and under fall under coaches eye for talent evaluation & player development. Hit or miss!

When I watch Baylor I think they have solid guard play & some good forwards. Acy is a star in the making. Weak in the middle.
So even though they have the 4 stars & the 3 stars maybe the rankings were off & maybe it could depend on the position they play.

Tk was a 3 star. Benny Rhodes was a 3 star. Papa was a 3.
Harp was a 3.

Rivals & Scouts rankings look good on paper but I don't put much stock into them. Take Javarez Willis from Pinkston for example. I have seen him play & he is a very good prospect. Would be a solid signing for us.
However, no rating from Rivals or Scout. Makes no sense.

Rivals & Scout provide some good info. I like ESPN better but they don't have as many prospects yet. I here they are going to expand.

papawasamustang wrote:MustangIcon,

I guess I need to explain it a little better for you so u don't have to correct me like my Daddy used to.

57 RPI is very good for their program. Tough schedule, tough league, overall winning record. Big improvement. I'd take their situation over ours in a heartbeat.

I made a comment several months ago about a conversation I had with a college HC. We talked about Rivals & Scout's rankings. In a nutshell he called BS to their rankings for anyone not ranked a 5 star and the majority of 4's. 3's and under fall under coaches eye for talent evaluation & player development. Hit or miss!

When I watch Baylor I think they have solid guard play & some good forwards. Acy is a star in the making. Weak in the middle.
So even though they have the 4 stars & the 3 stars maybe the rankings were off & maybe it could depend on the position they play.

Tk was a 3 star. Benny Rhodes was a 3 star. Papa was a 3.
Harp was a 3.

Rivals & Scouts rankings look good on paper but I don't put much stock into them. Take Javarez Willis from Pinkston for example. I have seen him play & he is a very good prospect. Would be a solid signing for us.
However, no rating from Rivals or Scout. Makes no sense.

Rivals & Scout provide some good info. I like ESPN better but they don't have as many prospects yet. I here they are going to expand.

Daddy must have gotten real frustrated correcting you so d@mn much then bc you appear to have missed the boat again. You just went back to the comparison between the programs stating "I'd take their situation over ours in a heartbeat." We get that, but that isn't what he asked about.

[ Insert Billy Gillespie quote from pappa. pappa, is that standardized response 1, 2, or 3 on your favorites list? ]

Its been fun watching Baylor do well in the national spotlight in the NIT tourney. Not the big dance but still a very good year for the Bears. I think its obvious that their good recruiting is paying off for them.

Now it will be fun to watch them come into the Dallas area, recruit & sign more top local players while we continue to spend big $$ recruiting all over the country & the world for our players when right down the street would do just fine.

papawasamustang wrote:Its been fun watching Baylor do well in the national spotlight in the NIT tourney. Not the big dance but still a very good year for the Bears. I think its obvious that their good recruiting is paying off for them.

Now it will be fun to watch them come into the Dallas area, recruit & sign more top local players while we continue to spend big $$ recruiting all over the country & the world for our players when right down the street would do just fine.

For about the 100th time... SMU wants to sign top local players. Top local players are not interested in coming to SMU. If you want to fault Doherty for not being able to land the top local talent, i understand. But to imply, like you often do, that he doesn't make the effort locally and chooses to fly all accross the country bypassing top local players that want to come here is flat out wrong.

You can't squeeze blood from a turnip, papa.

MustangIcon wrote:

papawasamustang wrote:Its been fun watching Baylor do well in the national spotlight in the NIT tourney. Not the big dance but still a very good year for the Bears. I think its obvious that their good recruiting is paying off for them.

Now it will be fun to watch them come into the Dallas area, recruit & sign more top local players while we continue to spend big $$ recruiting all over the country & the world for our players when right down the street would do just fine.

For about the 100th time... SMU wants to sign top local players. Top local players are not interested in coming to SMU. If you want to fault Doherty for not being able to land the top local talent, i understand. But to imply, like you often do, that he doesn't make the effort locally and chooses to fly all accross the country bypassing top local players that want to come here is flat out wrong.

You can't squeeze blood from a turnip, papa.

If Doh can't land SOME of the top local talent than he should be gone.
Making the effort doesn't cut it. You have to have results.
His recruiting is very disappointing.
My bad, I forgot. We have to give Doh another year.

I think both have a point-but I think I come down a little closer to pappawasamustang. Doherty really made a mistake by hiring assistants with no proven relationship or connection to the Metroplex. He's had some turnover and yet he goes right out an hires more with no connection to the Metroplex. Say what you want about Dement but he was smart enough to retain Tubbs-that's exactly how you build those pipelines. On Doherty's side-the pond was already poisoned by actions of those before him. To those who think the Metroplex doesn't matter-you're hopelessly uninformecd-and I pray for your souls