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I know there is still time but lets take a look where we stand with "the magnificent 7" now

Papa Dia: propbably the most highly touted recruit from this class, chose SMU over OK and Louisville. After a very productive freshman year has regressed since...

Ryan Harp: ineffective and a liability on the offensive end, hustles and plays decent defense but isnt athletically gifted enough to play outstanding on the ball defense.

Robert Nyakundi: Probably the most productive from this class, sweet shooter, hoping for a breakout year this season.

Mike Walker: for the most part will be burried at the end of the bench for the remainder of his career at smu, may be used as a pick me up and some instant offense

Alex Malone: Swing and Miss, strike 1...gone

Bennie Rhodes: Swing and Miss, strike 2...gone

TK: swing and miss, strike 3..wont see any meaningful minutes

lol, breaking new ground are we. Dia got killed by a kid that was rated a lot higher then he was last night. At Maryland, he killed everyone in practice every day. Let's step back from the cliff and realize our first two games are against two of the 4 best teams we'll face all year. The two teams on the schedule that we match up very poorly with. The key w/the first 8 games is destroy the cupcakes. If we don't do that, then start random thread starting

PonyDoh wrote:lol, breaking new ground are we. Dia got killed by a kid that was rated a lot higher then he was last night. At Maryland, he killed everyone in practice every day. Let's step back from the cliff and realize our first two games are against two of the 4 best teams we'll face all year. The two teams on the schedule that we match up very poorly with. The key w/the first 8 games is destroy the cupcakes. If we don't do that, then start random thread starting

i see where you are coming from, but this thread was not a reaction to a loss to a big east team. I just wanted to look at where we stand with what people dubbed "the magnificent 7" I hope we can beat the cupcakes, and not have a USC-upstate this year. Just from a pure athleticism standpoint we should kill the cupcakes..if not, we have reason to worry.

PonyDoh wrote:lol, breaking new ground are we. Dia got killed by a kid that was rated a lot higher then he was last night. At Maryland, he killed everyone in practice every day. Let's step back from the cliff and realize our first two games are against two of the 4 best teams we'll face all year. The two teams on the schedule that we match up very poorly with. The key w/the first 8 games is destroy the cupcakes. If we don't do that, then start random thread starting

I'm not ready to rule this season another bust for Dia yet, but you aren't at all concerned that he "got killed" by a higher rated player? A little more fight and hustle out of him would've been nice, even if he was playing against a better player. Once again it felt like he was just wasting space out there, whereas Luttman was at least being productive with the screen setting and rebounding. I'm just not sure how he's going to reach his full potential without adding some toughness to his game. Without a couple of gimme layups, he comes close to fouling out with a goose egg in the points column. Regardless of the competition, that is pretty frustrating.

As for the assessment of Rob N, I agree that he could be a pretty good player. But unfortunately if you can't create your own shot in Doh's offense, you're screwed. The thought of Williams and/or McCoy driving and dishing to a wide open Rob is wonderful, but that just doesn't happen in the Doh offense.

FriscoPMG wrote:

PonyDoh wrote:lol, breaking new ground are we. Dia got killed by a kid that was rated a lot higher then he was last night. At Maryland, he killed everyone in practice every day. Let's step back from the cliff and realize our first two games are against two of the 4 best teams we'll face all year. The two teams on the schedule that we match up very poorly with. The key w/the first 8 games is destroy the cupcakes. If we don't do that, then start random thread starting

I'm not ready to rule this season another bust for Dia yet, but you aren't at all concerned that he "got killed" by a higher rated player? A little more fight and hustle out of him would've been nice, even if he was playing against a better player. Once again it felt like he was just wasting space out there, whereas Luttman was at least being productive with the screen setting and rebounding. I'm just not sure how he's going to reach his full potential without adding some toughness to his game. Without a couple of gimme layups, he comes close to fouling out with a goose egg in the points column. Regardless of the competition, that is pretty frustrating.

As for the assessment of Rob N, I agree that he could be a pretty good player. But unfortunately if you can't create your own shot in Doh's offense, you're screwed. The thought of Williams and/or McCoy driving and dishing to a wide open Rob is wonderful, but that just doesn't happen in the Doh offense.

I agree w/what you're saying about Dia, he definitely needs to toughen up. My point was that he had no chance against Gilchrist, no matter what. If he flails vs equally or lesser talented bigs, I have no problem calling him out.

Also, why are you blaming Doh's O for McCoy & Will not passing? They get in the lane whenever they want, draw all kinds of bodies, but never find a wing shooter. Will did it once on Friday and it resulted in a 3 from Clink. That's not a failure in the system, it's kids wanting to get theirs.

PonyDoh wrote:I agree w/what you're saying about Dia, he definitely needs to toughen up. My point was that he had no chance against Gilchrist, no matter what. If he flails vs equally or lesser talented bigs, I have no problem calling him out.

Also, why are you blaming Doh's O for McCoy & Will not passing? They get in the lane whenever they want, draw all kinds of bodies, but never find a wing shooter. Will did it once on Friday and it resulted in a 3 from Clink. That's not a failure in the system, it's kids wanting to get theirs.

You're right, ultimately it does come down to the driver having the vision and willingness to dish the ball. However, when the majority of those drives come with 8 or fewer seconds on the shot clock, I think both McCoy and Williams are naturally inclined to get to the hoop vs. kicking it out. I guess my biggest beef with Doh's offense is the lack of screening, especially away from the ball. Set some screens to get Rob & Clinkscales open; keep setting screens to get Faye open on that curl and 15 footer from the FT line; if Williams has the ball, McCoy should be moving like crazy without the ball and vice versa. We have talented players, but counting on them to go one on one on darn near every possession just isn't productive.

FriscoPMG wrote:

PonyDoh wrote:I agree w/what you're saying about Dia, he definitely needs to toughen up. My point was that he had no chance against Gilchrist, no matter what. If he flails vs equally or lesser talented bigs, I have no problem calling him out.

Also, why are you blaming Doh's O for McCoy & Will not passing? They get in the lane whenever they want, draw all kinds of bodies, but never find a wing shooter. Will did it once on Friday and it resulted in a 3 from Clink. That's not a failure in the system, it's kids wanting to get theirs.

You're right, ultimately it does come down to the driver having the vision and willingness to dish the ball. However, when the majority of those drives come with 8 or fewer seconds on the shot clock, I think both McCoy and Williams are naturally inclined to get to the hoop vs. kicking it out. I guess my biggest beef with Doh's offense is the lack of screening, especially away from the ball. Set some screens to get Rob & Clinkscales open; keep setting screens to get Faye open on that curl and 15 footer from the FT line; if Williams has the ball, McCoy should be moving like crazy without the ball and vice versa. We have talented players, but counting on them to go one on one on darn near every possession just isn't productive.

It's interesting, we're watching the same game, and I agree w/most of your points, but we come from different angles. I think we have the system to be effective, as I've seen it run forever. We just don't have anybody on the team that is pass-first. McCoy/Will dribble out front, throw it around w/Faye, until they have a decent enough screen to work off, or a a glimpse at the paint, then they go hard at the rack. What this team needs is an old school, pass first PG, not a lead guard, and a few capable bigs that can run high pick'n'roll and step out. Luckily, thats' the '10 recruiting class in a nutshell. I think what we see is what we get from this team. We have a ton of kids looking for their shot, and no distributors.

PonyDoh wrote:It's interesting, we're watching the same game, and I agree w/most of your points, but we come from different angles. I think we have the system to be effective, as I've seen it run forever. We just don't have anybody on the team that is pass-first. McCoy/Will dribble out front, throw it around w/Faye, until they have a decent enough screen to work off, or a a glimpse at the paint, then they go hard at the rack. What this team needs is an old school, pass first PG, not a lead guard, and a few capable bigs that can run high pick'n'roll and step out. Luckily, thats' the '10 recruiting class in a nutshell. I think what we see is what we get from this team. We have a ton of kids looking for their shot, and no distributors.

PonyDoh wrote:I saw both games, and the entire offense is stagnant, not b/c of system, but b/c Will and Paul dribble the air out of the ball. Will may be our best player, but we'll better next year w/o him, mainly b/c we'll have a pass first PG. We have two kids that are allowed to get away with anything they want on the court, and 10 who get pulled for blinking. We have talent, but they aren't the right pieces for cohesive team play.

PonyDoh - I hope you don't mind me quoting your post from the A&M game thread, but I've enjoyed this discussion and thought I'd keep it in one thread.
While I agree with your points about Williams & McCoy, I still think a lot of the blame has to fall on Doherty for either not recruiting the correct players to fit his system (I know a true PG is coming in next yr but that might be too late for Doh) or not adjusting his system to fit the players he has (with the talent he has brought in, I'd think adjusting his system would be wisest). While Derek & Paul are generally the two guys up top doing the majority of the dribbling, I don't see Doh doing anything to correct this. As far as I can tell our offense focuses on one guy moving with the ball and working off of a ball screen. The 3 other guys on the court are standing still - zero motion or off the ball screens to free up teammates. You might be able to get away with this in the NBA, but there is no way SMU can succeed with this kind of offensive philosophy.
I think you're dead on about having 2 guys who can get away with anything and 10 guys who are afraid to miss a single shot.
I think in a different system this talent could be very cohesive & good. You've got slashers in McCoy, Williams and maybe Haynes (would be nice to see more of him). You've got spot up shooters in Rob and Clinkscales (and again maybe Haynes) who could be great if put in the right situation - running off baseline screens? Pick & pops for Rob? Faye has proven to be a very versatile forward and Luttman (and eventually Otis) solid screen setters. Not sure where Dia falls in line these days, but I think he could be a lot better if put into better situations. I just see a team that could be very good offensively if they fell into an offense that opened them up for good looks at the basket from spots on the floor where they're comfortable.
So I still think we're seeing a lot of the same problems, but I think the majority of this problem has to fall on the head coach. Unfortunately waiting for a true PG next season to fix things isn't a luxury Doh has.