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What are some of the thoughts as to why SMU has such a hard time recruiting the DFdub? Im sure its a rethread...but I havent been here in a while and curious what the regulars think is the problem.

There might only be a handful of Nat'l top recruits here...but there are plenty of midmajors ripe for the pickin.

Merry Christmas...and how bout them gridiron Stangs!! The season ticket office will have to deal w/a ton of new bandwagon sales...a great problem to have!

How about Doherty originally hiring a coaching staff w/o any DFW or even Texas experience

I think it's b/c a local AAU organization, funded and run by an SMU alum, whose director of ops are ex-Mustang players, don't take it upon themselves to get us better talent.

lol ...ask a loaded question, E, get a loaded answer.

i didn't think Doh was the right hire at the right time to begin with. But once he got hired, to me its what Stallion said. He brought in assistants from Michigan, Ohio and all over the place. the big effort to 'reach out' that i remember was he went to a Luby's in South D where coaches gather for breakfast. It was pretty funny that we planted that Lubys story in the newspaper. Thats all we got? Thats the plan?

Erion wrote:What are some of the thoughts as to why SMU has such a hard time recruiting the DFdub? Im sure its a rethread...but I havent been here in a while and curious what the regulars think is the problem.

There might only be a handful of Nat'l top recruits here...but there are plenty of midmajors ripe for the pickin.

Merry Christmas...and how bout them gridiron Stangs!! The season ticket office will have to deal w/a ton of new bandwagon sales...a great problem to have!

U are involved in the local AAU scene & have
a much better take on what's going on than
casual fans do. What's your take?

I see a staff that isn't committed to
build a local pipeline. They appear to have
too broad of a net. They are everywhere
wasting time & money instead of hunkering
down locally.

I go to many local/state hs & jc games each
year. The talent is very rich.
It pisses me off to no end to never see an SMU
coach @ these games. Believe me, I see
plenty of other schools there.

I also believe they have failed at talent evaluations.
I think they elephant hunt too much holding
out for unrealistic prospects while the perfect
fit mid majors slip away.
Look at the Texas hoops 2010 class rankings
& look at where all the prospects are going.
Not good enough for Doh but good enough
for everyone else.

Finally, like Stallion mentioned, poor asst coach
hires.

The next hc should have a local aau, local hs
or jc coach on their staff. Gotta hit the
ground running with roots already in place locally
IMO.

Haha ponydoh...I have no idea what youre talking about! What kind of alum would do that??

I think papa nailed a lot of it...wouldnt change any of it. And from my perspective there has to be a commitment to it...good or bad. I think Dement had the most success recruiting the area in recent memory...not sure how he did it...but it worked for them. He just fell victim to getting those 'elephants' in the gym and they wouldnt play for him.

So its more than just elephant hunting...gotta get the right ones. They need to canvass the area as often as possible. Need to make SMU more available. And by that I mean get the local schools involved. There are 5,000 open seats to any SMU game...why not peel off 1 or 2k of those and get the Lincolns and Dunbars and Arlingtons into the games. Not just the athletes...Im talking students. Worse that happens is they spend $1 on concessions. Kids are influenced by their friends...get them supportive of the idea. Now these locals are bringing fans to the game. I like Mo and Papa and Harp...but who here is leaving their house in the cold to watch them play? Not winning anyway...might as well lose w/locals.

But def dont put TOO much emphasis on those elephants. They are mostly overrated anyway. Ive seen regulars and no names regularly beat up on the mammoths...so its not like theyre cant miss. Dont buy into the hype...there's only a handful of transformational players out there...everyone else is about even. Coaching and development will be the separators.

In addition to everything papa said...I'd hire Erion as a consultant and pay him like June Jones!!

This staff has done a horrible job
promoting SMU locally.
Need to advertise, sponsor, hold coaching clinics,
player camps @ places like Plano Sports Authority
, Frisco Fieldhouse, Y's & other local hotbeds for talent.
On any given weekend during hoops season,
there are over 500 or more youth basketball games @
these locations. Give these teams discounts/promos
to attend games to help fill up Moody.
What a great place to reach out to locals.

Another suggestion is tap into the local DISD hoops tournament thats played next week.
Why not a DISD/SMU Cola Cola Tournament, or something like that in the future?
SMU can have a 4 team college tournament blended in with the HS games. Have the college games mixed in with the HS games.
Even though some might joke & say that the HS teams are better than SMU it could be a really good thing if legal.

another thing about elephant hunting, you can't just show up to recruit the big elephant, you have to be there looking at the wobbly baby elephants too. If Quinton Ross was coming out of Kimball this year, where would he go? Would SMU even be in his top 5? Would he feel comfortable visiting SMU? Would he know or care to play with any of the kids on our roster? Doubt it. Better question is probably would Doh even see him or spend more than 5 minutes on him?

Hoop Fan wrote:another thing about elephant hunting, you can't just show up to recruit the big elephant, you have to be there looking at the wobbly baby elephants too. If Quinton Ross was coming out of Kimball this year, where would he go? Would SMU even be in his top 5? Would he feel comfortable visiting SMU? Would he know or care to play with any of the kids on our roster? Doubt it. Better question is probably would Doh even see him or spend more than 5 minutes on him?

You a exactly right about Q. That's a perfect example of the type of player that we should be going after thats not even getting a look by this staff. I feel very confident in saying that the DFW/Texas area had better options than a Luttman & Clinkscales.

Tim Mason and I have our own bball training biz and we are also co-directors of the Heroes Bball Foundation founded by SMU alum Charlie McKinney. We are helping develop some studs...and we hope to get a lot more of this homegrown talent to stay home!

Erion, that's your quote from last year.

How bout an update re: your statement. What's the truth about what's going on with SMU hoops?
What do your kids think about SMU? Is the current staff doing a good job recruiting your talent or are trying to recruit over their heads? I'll use Cedar Hill for example. Seems like a lot of talent there & a chance for a solid pipeline.
Glover, Milson, Wells, etc... Glover would have been perfect here but goes & sits @ Utah. We can't shoot, Milson can. Better than Mike Walker & always a spot reserved for a sniper. Coaches son, perfect chance to start something. He's going out of state to UNC whatever. Gibson, the kind of guy we should be camping out with imo?

Thanks in advance for your insight.

Here's the thing, what's the model here? Are we really going to try and out athlete Memphis, Tulsa, UTEP, Houston and other noteworthy diploma mills? Are we going to put better athletes on the floor then the high majors we play OOC like A&M & South florida? The elephant in the room is the high mid model. Basically, high skill guys, slower tempo, and look like Butler. Nobody wants to hear it, but if you look at the school's demographics, it makes sense.

The idea of recruiting locally is great, and it needs to be addressed, but look at the Top 25 players in Texas in '10 There are high major guys that go Big 12, some mids that choose Tulsa/UTEP, and low majors. I buy that we should get a Top kid every few years, but look at the national trend. Each year, of the top 150 national players, maybe 7-11 go mid-major. That means to get a Top 150 player nationally each year, we'd almost always have to get a Top 10 kid in Texas, if not higher.

The issue here is coaching and team/roster building. This roster is a collection of parts, strung together by Lutz, w/basically no help. We've had 6 or 7 assistants in 4 years. That makes developing local success an impossibility. We look like spare parts b/c we've been running around w/a spare parts staff. I think that would change w/Brown & Geary, but who cares, cause Doh isn't changing.

DFW gets fixed when Orsini commits to bringing the right folks in, to help aid in the right hire. Even w/a DFW specialist, the odds are that we get a top 10 kid in Texas, maybe every other, or every 3rd year. In 20 years, we've had maybe 6 or 7 national top 100 kids, and they were all like 90s. The issue is having a real system that makes sense for the kinds of kids we can recruit. Discipline matters b/c we're not going to always have better athletes.

Evaluation is always an issue. I know we passed on a few kids this past cycle, that wanted in, but we didn't have ship space. Had they have waited till Spring, they would have really helped, considering what we've seen on the court so far this winter. One went to another CUSA school w/far more on court success, and we said 'no thanks'. You roll the dice w/who you think is the best. Ultimately, you're either brilliant or an [deleted].

The beauty here is that the '10 kids are signed. Fire Doh, promote Lutz to interim, see what we get this year. At the end of the year, if Lutz performs well, you give him an interview. Beyond that, go low key and get first rate assistant in here like Springman, the first day you can. Have him assemble a staff to dominate locally, and go to work. First priority is keeping the '10 class in the fold. The following link shows that our '10 class is a top 3 class in CUSA, especially if we add a kid or two.

http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiti ... son%3d2010

SMU has to recruit nationally/internationally, but that doesn't make it acceptable to be iced out at home. We need DFW to represent to really be high mid like Gonzaga

PonyDoh wrote:Here's the thing, what's the model here? Are we really going to try and out athlete Memphis, Tulsa, UTEP, Houston and other noteworthy diploma mills? Are we going to put better athletes on the floor then the high majors we play OOC like A&M & South florida? The elephant in the room is the high mid model. Basically, high skill guys, slower tempo, and look like Butler. Nobody wants to hear it, but if you look at the school's demographics, it makes sense.

The idea of recruiting locally is great, and it needs to be addressed, but look at the Top 25 players in Texas in '10 There are high major guys that go Big 12, some mids that choose Tulsa/UTEP, and low majors. I buy that we should get a Top kid every few years, but look at the national trend. Each year, of the top 150 national players, maybe 7-11 go mid-major. That means to get a Top 150 player nationally each year, we'd almost always have to get a Top 10 kid in Texas, if not higher.

The issue here is coaching and team/roster building. This roster is a collection of parts, strung together by Lutz, w/basically no help. We've had 6 or 7 assistants in 4 years. That makes developing local success an impossibility. We look like spare parts b/c we've been running around w/a spare parts staff. I think that would change w/Brown & Geary, but who cares, cause Doh isn't changing.

DFW gets fixed when Orsini commits to bringing the right folks in, to help aid in the right hire. Even w/a DFW specialist, the odds are that we get a top 10 kid in Texas, maybe every other, or every 3rd year. In 20 years, we've had maybe 6 or 7 national top 100 kids, and they were all like 90s. The issue is having a real system that makes sense for the kinds of kids we can recruit. Discipline matters b/c we're not going to always have better athletes.

Evaluation is always an issue. I know we passed on a few kids this past cycle, that wanted in, but we didn't have ship space. Had they have waited till Spring, they would have really helped, considering what we've seen on the court so far this winter. One went to another CUSA school w/far more on court success, and we said 'no thanks'. You roll the dice w/who you think is the best. Ultimately, you're either brilliant or an [deleted].

The beauty here is that the '10 kids are signed. Fire Doh, promote Lutz to interim, see what we get this year. At the end of the year, if Lutz performs well, you give him an interview. Beyond that, go low key and get first rate assistant in here like Springman, the first day you can. Have him assemble a staff to dominate locally, and go to work. First priority is keeping the '10 class in the fold.

SMU has to recruit nationally/internationally, but that doesn't make it acceptable to be iced out at home. We need DFW to represent to really be high mid like Gonzaga

Thanks great post.

papawasamustang wrote:Tim Mason and I have our own bball training biz and we are also co-directors of the Heroes Bball Foundation founded by SMU alum Charlie McKinney. We are helping develop some studs...and we hope to get a lot more of this homegrown talent to stay home!

Erion, that's your quote from last year.

How bout an update re: your statement. What's the truth about what's going on with SMU hoops?
What do your kids think about SMU? Is the current staff doing a good job recruiting your talent or are trying to recruit over their heads? I'll use Cedar Hill for example. Seems like a lot of talent there & a chance for a solid pipeline.
Glover, Milson, Wells, etc... Glover would have been perfect here but goes & sits @ Utah. We can't shoot, Milson can. Better than Mike Walker & always a spot reserved for a sniper. Coaches son, perfect chance to start something. He's going out of state to UNC whatever. Gibson, the kind of guy we should be camping out with imo?

Thanks in advance for your insight.

Would you have seriously offered Milson over Patsevich, cause that's what you're suggesting. The Mike Walker example isn't apples to apples. Obviously, I'd love to have Gipson, but you know that kid is thinking high major, even if his skills say mid major.

Man...youre gonna get me in trouble...but Ill be 100 with you. Our 2009 team was full of guys SMU shouldve been all over. That was really before I was heavily involved in the program...so I didnt really know the guys. Shawn Glover (Utah), Chase Hallam (starting at Denver), Caden Dickerson (WKU), Corey Remekun (SLU) all were "smu" type guys...not sure what kind of interest they got from the Stangs so I wont comment. Ryan Barbre was a Hero as well ended up walking on at SMU.

Our 2010 team was not as strong. Interest waned in Nick Hinton. Jackson Jeffcoat will be top fball recruit in country. Brandon Jefferson is a scoring guard and they are heavy w/that already. Milson can shoot it...but will be a one trick pony if he doesnt develop into PG. But he has 1 helluva trick! Probably no other SMU guys on that team.

Now on to our team...the 2011s. SMU has shown interest in our entire starting five. Kyan Anderson (PG-N Crowley), Jordan Green (SG-FlowerMound), Darius Singleton (SF-Sachse), Thomas Gipson (PF-CedarHill), Geoffrey Groselle (C-PlanoWest). Jordan committed early to A&M. Darius committed to TCU. And that was the end of our relationship w/SMU. We encouraged them both to not commit early...but they found exactly what they were lookin for. Hard to argue against the Ags...TCU showed D MAJOR love. Both guys are not responsive to overaggressive coaches...and that was part of what disqualified SMU. Both talented players...but still maturing (which is why you dont commit that early).

In any case...perception is we dont have enough influence to influence decisions...which is why I think the lack of communication. I can go on about this and why thats a GOOD thing for SMU...but I wont dig into that. The type of kids we recruit/develop in the program are intelligent, independent, and come from strong family units. Just like I was coming out of HS. Those should be the EASIEST kids to recruit cuz you dont have to go thru handlers or professional jobbers. Our relationships are built on trust and the families trust us.

With that trust comes a responsibility...and honestly...Im not a believer yet...so its hard for us to answer the tough questions. When the parent asks about player development...how can I lie? Who's getting better? When the parent asks about consistency in coaching...how can I lie? Where will Doh be next year? Those are the 2 main reasons players come to our program...and the 2 main qualities they are looking for in a college program.

We are filling out the rosters now and our teams will be good for years to come. If I were SMU...I would be snuggling up to the younger teams...getting familiar w/those kids...creating bridges into the future. Cuz when theyre "hot"...its too late for small schools like SMU.

I havent seen Pats live...but from the vids I saw I take him over Milson.

PonyDoh nailed it w/the model...gotta be realistic about what youre trying to accomplish. Cant out athlete the big boys...impossible. Even a program in legal shambles like USC keeps getting superior athletes. cant compete.

The asst coach thing is a BIG BIG problem at SMU. I swear I dont ever remember a seson since 1990 where the same staff came back for consecutive years. I played under 2 coaches and the problem they both had was ego.

Assistants were given NO power...NO say so. And NO coach, especially at SMU, is talented enough to do it alone. When the coach doesnt respect the assistants...neither do the players. So you get nothing done outsie of the head coach yelling and screaming all the time. Then you get players who play not to make mistakes...instead of making instinctive bball plays. (ie Frank Otis)

"When you start thinking of pressure...its because youve started thinking of failure." Every SMU coach since Shumate preach "dont fail" instead of teaching "how to win"....from my perspective.