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No one...NO ONE...has won as many games in his first three years in D1 as Stevens. Not Thad Matta. Not the guy after Matta. Not any of the other big name coaches.

Yes, I know Butler's been good for years. Yes, I know they must have some kind of a pipeline. But tell me how this guy communicates with the barbershop crowd in south Indy. How does Butler have its 'in' with Marion County schools?

Of the 15 guys listed on Butler's roster 10 of them are from Indiana and only 1 is from a Marion County City (Freshman Andrew Smith is from Indianapolis). Only 2 of the 4 standout players on the team are from Indiana (Matt Howard, Gordon Hayward) the other 2 (Veasley and Mack) are from Illinois and Kentucky respectively. Brad Stevens doesn't seem to be overly interested in the barbershop crowd judging by his roster composition and style of play. To be apart of that program one has to buy into the Butler Way which is a magnanimous, self-sacrificing system which very few are cut out for. Butler is a small private school in a basketball-crazy state and has loyal support from students and alumni. Most of the guys he recruits are and a large majority of past Butler stars have been boy scouts from rural areas.

sbsmith wrote: doesn't seem to be overly interested in the barbershop crowd judging by his roster composition and style of play. To be apart of that program one has to buy into the Butler Way..a small private school

kind of what I was getting at. That, and the no Marion county kids: no DISD kids

To me, maybe this is more ammo that we're finally on the right track. We have a system. Recruit to it. Congruent w/ PonyDoh's comments about taking a player who was more what we were looking for over another who tried to verbal.

sbsmith wrote:Of the 15 guys listed on Butler's roster 10 of them are from Indiana and only 1 is from a Marion County City (Freshman Andrew Smith is from Indianapolis). Only 2 of the 4 standout players on the team are from Indiana (Matt Howard, Gordon Hayward) the other 2 (Veasley and Mack) are from Illinois and Kentucky respectively. Brad Stevens doesn't seem to be overly interested in the barbershop crowd judging by his roster composition and style of play. To be apart of that program one has to buy into the Butler Way which is a magnanimous, self-sacrificing system which very few are cut out for. Butler is a small private school in a basketball-crazy state and has loyal support from students and alumni. Most of the guys he recruits are and a large majority of past Butler stars have been boy scouts from rural areas.

Exactly. Butler is all about system & efficiency. They minimize possessions which hurts more talented squads, and enables them to control tempo and flow. They work for good looks and play an efficient brand of offense. The team is all about passing and shooters. We'd do well to mimic some of what they're doing

I'd love to see elements of the Butler Way here at SMU if not the whole system. It would certainly make SMU a nightmare to play against if implemented properly.

sbsmith wrote:I'd love to see elements of the Butler Way here at SMU if not the whole system. It would certainly make SMU a nightmare to play against if implemented properly.

a start would be a pass first PG, more pass first kids, not to mention shooters. The '10 class represents some of that, so that's a positive. Right now, we're running a hybrid princeton O w/the wrong personnel, but it's still pseudo effective just b/c we're controlling the pace of the game. We get the right personnel and we'll not only control tempo, but also become far more efficient. Not Butler, but a start at the proper model.

Doh said he "let 'em play" on Sat night. What changed and why did it work so well?
I know we were shooting lights out but it seemed to flow a little better than usual. definitely one of the best games they have played in a long while.

Anyway, RGV is right - we need a system that works with SMU. We aren't going to be Memphis or UTEP ..ever.

Pony_Fan wrote:Doh said he "let 'em play" on Sat night. What changed and why did it work so well?
I know we were shooting lights out but it seemed to flow a little better than usual. definitely one of the best games they have played in a long while.

Anyway, RGV is right - we need a system that works with SMU. We aren't going to be Memphis or UTEP ..ever.

The bolded part can't be stated enough. Just look at Memphis' class next year. We can't try and go after those guys man up. We need a system that minimizes talent discrepancies, and the built in advantages diploma mills have in hoops.

ya know, if thats the case, then Doh is really not the right guy for the job. He just stumbled onto the system like last week and has to learn it himself apparently. What you need to make that system work is a true teacher in practice who is also a strong bench coach on gameday who can push all the right buttons at the end of a low scoring game to give his team the advantage or a needed extra possession. Is that Doh????

I am not against a Gonzaga, Butler type approach. Even John Thompson Sr at Georgetown with some great athletes adhered to a disciplined system. I do think we can get very good athletes/hoopers who are also adequate students to come to SMU if you had the right plan and a charismatic coach to pull it off.

even the most anti-Doh fan would have to admit that, outside of some meltdowns on gameday, charisma is something Doh is not lacking in

Why is it we have a football coach who made an immediate recruiting impact the day he stepped on campus, upgraded talent across the board, implemented a system immediately, and in year 2 has exceeded the performance of 20 years....

.... meanwhile in bball we are OK with a coach that has taken 5 years to find a system, and is just now recruiting to it? Why, if Doh is so "charismatic", is his recruiting not leading to wins?

Is it a valid argument that Jones had his stint in Hawaii to learn how to rebuild a program, but this is Doherty's first real rebuild? Is that acceptable?

couch 'em wrote:Why is it we have a football coach who made an immediate recruiting impact the day he stepped on campus, upgraded talent across the board, implemented a system immediately, and in year 2 has exceeded the performance of 20 years....

.... meanwhile in bball we are OK with a coach that has taken 5 years to find a system, and is just now recruiting to it? Why, if Doh is so "charismatic", is his recruiting not leading to wins?

Is it a valid argument that Jones had his stint in Hawaii to learn how to rebuild a program, but this is Doherty's first real rebuild? Is that acceptable?

First, there is talent on SMU hoops team, and in the pipeline. Jones doesn't recruit at any higher a level then hoops. At least, not yet. Second, coaches are hired to run & bring their system. Doh didn't know the in's and outs of this program before he showed up, it was just another step up. He brought his motion O, man D etc. Orsini should have recognized that running motion and going straight man in this conference wasn't going to work, so the hire was flawed up front. In Jones' case, his system is tailor made for mid major football and that played out at Hawaii. They are just very different situations.

Mistakes were made by both Doh and Orsini, but the current system makes sense. This team isn't far away from 20 win seasons.

RGV Pony wrote:even the most anti-Doh fan would have to admit that, outside of some meltdowns on gameday, charisma is something Doh is not lacking in

yeah, Doh is personable and good face for the program off the court. But mostly in that Highland Park cigar club kind of setting. He certainly has redeeming qualities no one is saying he doesn't. does that mean i think he is the right guy to run the new found system or that he was the right hire at the right time for SMU then or even now? Well, that is the honest debate.

if only pb had stumbled onto the run and shoot.