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Its Sat night...Im drunk...and online playing with ponyfans. so lets play a drinking game.

Would you rather...have a 5star PG or a 4star Center?

Would you rather...have a coach that can recruit...or coach that can coach?

Would you rather...have beer at home games and rowdy crowd...or beer in frat houses and empty crowd?

Would you rather...have Tubbs (RIP) .500team and clean conscious...or...sub500 team and bad karma?

Would you rather...have Mitch McConnell...or...RealTalk? hahaha...I kid I kid. I am the Neo to his Agent Smith. Seriously...SMU needs more fans like him...bleeding blue and blinded with pride. Just like you need a good dose of RealTalk to let you know when youre fallin off the beating path!

Bartender...another round!

A great center, but those "star" systems are largely a joke.
Coach who can recruit ... with a staff of assistants who can really coach.
Beer at games, or anything else to make crowd rowdy.
A winning SMU team ... and I think you meant "conscience," right? Not an issue here.

Hal wrote: and I think you meant "conscience," right?

hahahaha...*hiccup*...your right.

(I did that last one on purpose)

Good answers...thx for playing! I like a coaching coach though...that sells itself.

If you liked a coaching coach you would not like TUbbs. He was a cadaver.

gostangs wrote:If you liked a coaching coach you would not like TUbbs. He was a cadaver.

that's not the way I recall him. I remember him standing up, arms outstretched, telling Morriss to get his hands up, almost like he (Tubbs) himself was playing D

gostangs wrote:If you liked a coaching coach you would not like TUbbs. He was a cadaver.

I get your point...unfortunate choice of words.

He wld grade as Incomplete. Won state titles at HS level. Had better start than Doh with tougher OOC. I wld go on record saying the players had more respect for him than coaches before or after him.

gostangs wrote:If you liked a coaching coach you would not like TUbbs. He was a cadaver.

nice choice of words. enjoy your empty suit. We'll see how long they can prop him up.

Real Talk wrote:

gostangs wrote:If you liked a coaching coach you would not like TUbbs. He was a cadaver.

I get your point...unfortunate choice of words.

He wld grade as Incomplete. Won state titles at HS level. Had better start than Doh with tougher OOC. I wld go on record saying the players had more respect for him than coaches before or after him.

He also had more talent on the roster when he started than Doh did. He was brought in to recruit and didn't succeed. That being said, the trumped up reasons for firing him were unfortunate.

CalallenStang wrote:

Real Talk wrote:

gostangs wrote:If you liked a coaching coach you would not like TUbbs. He was a cadaver.

I get your point...unfortunate choice of words.

He wld grade as Incomplete. Won state titles at HS level. Had better start than Doh with tougher OOC. I wld go on record saying the players had more respect for him than coaches before or after him.

He also had more talent on the roster when he started than Doh did. He was brought in to recruit and didn't succeed. That being said, the trumped up reasons for firing him were unfortunate.

statements like this are what keeps this debate festering: he was brought in to recruit but didn't succeed> how do you conclude that in two years? Nothing can be proven in two years. If anything, the only thing that can be concluded is that Doherty did not succeed in five years! I can make a very good case that Tubbs was 80% responsible for Doh's best player. Who? Papa Dia, of course. Now, why is Papa Dia REALLY at SMU? Remember Bamba Fall and the Senegalese connection? That had more to do with Papa being here than anything Doh did. Without Papa, this season is a complete sh*tshow and Doh is long gone. I'm sure people dont like to hear that because it makes them uncomfortable, but its easy to see.

Tubby Smith is never given credit by Kentucky fans for winning the 1998 title. They said he won it with Pitino's players. While true, how do we know Pitino would have won the 1998 title?

We don't.

We don't know if Dia would have succeeded under Tubbs. We also don't know if Ike Ofuebo(sp) would have grown in his senior year under Tubbs like he did under Doherty.

I'm not defending Doherty, but this is a circular argument of coaches winning the past regime's players. This argument is everywhere.

The best you can do is speculate. There are NO absolutes to this kind of argument.

I liked Tubbs but he wasn't a Div 1 head coach. End of story. RIP.
HoopFan won't let this one go over the years. Yes, he got a bad deal, we can all admit that no question.

Hoop Fan wrote:statements like this are what keeps this debate festering: he was brought in to recruit but didn't succeed> how do you conclude that in two years? Nothing can be proven in two years. If anything, the only thing that can be concluded is that Doherty did not succeed in five years! I can make a very good case that Tubbs was 80% responsible for Doh's best player. Who? Papa Dia, of course. Now, why is Papa Dia REALLY at SMU? Remember Bamba Fall and the Senegalese connection? That had more to do with Papa being here than anything Doh did. Without Papa, this season is a complete sh*tshow and Doh is long gone. I'm sure people dont like to hear that because it makes them uncomfortable, but its easy to see.

Here's the thing, Hoopfan. Pretty much all of us w/any practical hoops knowledge think Tubbs got royally screwed. I go out of my way to call it a lynching, cause that's what it was. You don't have to keep driving it home, at the expense of other folks. IT was what it was, and unfortunate doesn't cover it. Can we move on now?

Speaking of moving on, quit it w/that Dia junk. There is no doubt Fall/Dia/Faye all came from Gallo Fall & Seeds Academy, to some extent. If you want to play connect the dots though, it goes deeper than all of that, and actually gives Tubbs a pseudo black eye. Since the man is deceased, not to mention wrongfully terminated, let's not go down that road, just because you have an axe to grind, and apparently not the whole picture.

Also, why blame Doh for Tubbs, why not the people who actually tied the noose? Doh just got caught in a messy messy clean-up. Isn't your disdain somewhat misguided?

well, its pretty much a joke to suggest Doh is a developer of players, but ok. We all know he hangs his hat on being a recruiter first and foremost. Let's for a minute say he developed Papa. What about the other 6 players in that class that everyone said was so great at the time, who he WAS clearly responsible for recruiting? How did they develop? Other than Papa, it aint pretty.

I thought he did a pretty good job w / Ofuebu and Killen, off the top of my head.

Hoop Fan wrote:well, its pretty much a joke to suggest Doh is a developer of players, but ok. We all know he hangs his hat on being a recruiter first and foremost. Let's for a minute say he developed Papa. What about the other 6 players in that class that everyone said was so great at the time, who he WAS clearly responsible for recruiting? How did they develop? Other than Papa, it aint pretty.

I think Nyakundi(all league as a junior) turned out Ok, and of course Dia, a 2 time all league kid, first team this year, DPOY, and all time great big at SMU. How many all league kids did you want out of that class? again, who is debating you, other than shooting down some of your inane arguments. It was too big a class, it had some real personality issues, and some non-performers. It also yielded two big time players for us. Walker and Harp were career role players that helped as seniors.