Is there any heat on Coach Doh?

by **smuhype** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:59 am

Is there any heat on this guy --- how long can we just keep spinning in place?

I had figured with his name at least we would start upgrading our schedule over time???

by **hoopmanx** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:05 am

smuhype wrote:Is there any heat on this guy --- how long can we just keep spinning in place?

I had figured with his name at least we would start upgrading our schedule over time???

Our schedule is pretty darn good this year. We still have OSU, Ole Miss & TCU in the OOC. We just played a prestigious preseason tourney etc. Doh should see heat, but certainly not for this schedule

by **gostangs** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:53 am

If you cant see the improvement in the athletes on the floor from three years ago you either havent been to a game this year or dont know anything about basketball. I was about to give up on him at beginning of last year - but he has me and most of the regulars (not that it is a big crowd) turned about at the moment. His leash is probably shorter then most - but schedule and team are all better and on a pretty obvious upward path.

by **1983 Cotton Bowl** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:15 am

I'm probably in the minority here, but I think Doh has done a pretty good job. Not in Ws and Ls so far, granted. So if that's the bottom line for evaluating Doh at this point then I guess he should have a short leash. But this program was SO FAR DOWN when Doh got here that simply judging him by Ws and Ls (even after 6(?) years) I think does not paint the whole picture. Right now, the state of the program and the trajectory is better than it has been in the fifteen years that I've been following SMU. And I include the late-1990's, early-2000's Dement teams in that. (1) Recruiting is way up, standards have been adjusted to a level where the coaches can compete; (2) the facilities are dramatically improved and will be even more so in the next couple of years; (3) I think Doh has grown into this job. There have definitely been rough patches and Doh has made some mistakes along the way (the 7 man recruiting class stands out, which Doh has admitted was a mistake). But I think he's learned a lot and has applied those lessons to make himself a better coach.

Let's not forget that Doh inherited a program that was bereft of talent, had subpar ageing facilities, and was in trouble with the NCAA. Maybe the turn around hasn't gone as quickly as some hoped/expected. But considering where he started from I think Doh has made huge strides. I know hope springs eternal when you follow SMU, but I really believe the breakout is close. Just my two cents.

by **gostangs** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:21 am

and if someone is wondering if that assessment is just more SMU hopeless rose colored glasses - i really recommend you go see the newest players on the court. It will change your mind.

by **papawasamustang** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:04 pm

The talent level has been upgraded, and the future looks bright.
I sat in the stands yesterday confused about the sub patterns. Manuel & Vilde have to be getting more minutes. I still question Doh's coaching abilities.

by **RGV Pony** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:10 pm

papawasamustang wrote:The talent level has been upgraded, and the future looks bright.
I sat in the stands yesterday confused about the sub patterns. Manuel & Vilde have to be getting more minutes. I still question Doh's coaching abilities.

yes they do. Why Losh is getting so many minutes at amazes me...has to be shooting less than 20%-he was at 29 going into the game yesterday. And most of the looks he gets are wide open. He can handle the ball well enough as GiddyUp pointed out.

IMO Manuel should start. Frog can still log some minutes as a change of pace guy. Cotton is looking good. I guess Smith & Vilde can rotate at the 5 when Smith comes aboard and have Cunningham at the 4. Which still leaves us w/ needing to find minutes for Williams & Jalen. With Nyuk that gives you 9 deep of guys that can play.

by **hoopmanx** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:21 pm

RGV Pony wrote:
papawasamustang wrote:The talent level has been upgraded, and the future looks bright.
I sat in the stands yesterday confused about the sub patterns. Manuel & Vilde have to be getting more minutes. I still question Doh's coaching abilities.

yes they do. Why Losh is getting so many minutes at amazes me...has to be shooting less than 20%-he was at 29 going into the game yesterday. And most of the looks he gets are wide open. He can handle the ball well enough as GiddyUp pointed out.

IMO Manuel should start. Frog can still log some minutes as a change of pace guy. Cotton is looking good. I guess Smith & Vilde can rotate at the 5 when Smith comes aboard and have Cunningham at the 4. Which still leaves us w/ needing to find minutes for Williams & Jalen. With Nyuk that gives you 9 deep of guys that can play.

Exactly, that's your 9. Go dribble drive motion or ball screen motion if you must, cause the princeton doesn't really meet personnel right now.

by **Wuba** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:14 pm

hoopmanx wrote:
RGV Pony wrote:
papawasamustang wrote:The talent level has been upgraded, and the future looks bright.
I sat in the stands yesterday confused about the sub patterns. Manuel & Vilde have to be getting more minutes. I still question Doh's coaching abilities.

yes they do. Why Losh is getting so many minutes at amazes me...has to be shooting less than 20%-he was at 29 going into the game yesterday. And most of the looks he gets are wide open. He can handle the ball well enough as GiddyUp pointed out.

IMO Manuel should start. Frog can still log some minutes as a change of pace guy. Cotton is looking good. I guess Smith & Vilde can rotate at the 5 when Smith comes aboard and have Cunningham at the 4. Which still leaves us w/ needing to find minutes for Williams & Jalen. With Nyuk that gives you 9 deep of guys that can play.

Exactly, that's your 9. Go dribble drive motion or ball screen motion if you must, cause the princeton doesn't really meet personnel right now.

Not too long ago you were so excited that SMU had a system in place and was recruiting to it. You talk about how the pace will really frustrate teams, especially in C-USA. Now half your posts are about how we need to scrap the system. You really run hot and cold.

by **2ndandlong** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:17 pm

Wuba wrote:
hoopmanx wrote:
RGV Pony wrote:[quote="papawasamustang"]The talent level has been upgraded, and the future looks bright.
I sat in the stands yesterday confused about the sub patterns. Manuel & Vilde have to be getting more minutes. I still question Doh's coaching abilities.

yes they do. Why Losh is getting so many minutes at amazes me...has to be shooting less than 20%-he was at 29 going into the game yesterday. And most of the looks he gets are wide open. He can handle the ball well enough as GiddyUp pointed out.

IMO Manuel should start. Frog can still log some minutes as a change of pace guy. Cotton is looking good. I guess Smith & Vilde can rotate at the 5 when Smith comes aboard and have Cunningham at the 4. Which still leaves us w/ needing to find minutes for Williams & Jalen. With Nyuk that gives you 9 deep of guys that can play.

Exactly, that's your 9. Go dribble drive motion or ball screen motion if you must, cause the princeton doesn't really meet personnel right now.

Not too long ago you were so excited that SMU had a system in place and was recruiting to it. You talk about how the pace will really frustrate teams, especially in C-USA. Now half your posts are about how we need to scrap the system. You really run hot and cold.[/quote]

are you going tonight?

by **hoopmanx** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:38 pm

[quote="Wuba"
Not too long ago you were so excited that SMU had a system in place and was recruiting to it. You talk about how the pace will really frustrate teams, especially in C-USA. Now half your posts are about how we need to scrap the system. You really run hot and cold.[/quote]

I'm a huge proponent of the princeton as long as it's not at the expense of our best talent. It really frustrates the teams in CUSA, but it also keep teams like Georgia Southern in the game. I'm certainly not saying to scrap the system, but the '12 class was recruited w/the princeton in mind, not the '10 or '11. Jalen Jones & Ryan Manuel aren't princeton kids at all. Cunningham & Norman are or can be. Its not a matter of running hot and cold, it's a matter of putting your kids in the best position to succeed now, but most importantly over the long haul, so we can reach our ceiling.

Everything changes when you have a long 6'4 PG that can penetrate, dish, or finish. That's the holy grail in college hoops. IF you have that, you make it work for you. I think we might have that in Manuel. Wasn't sure before I saw him play a few games, but he has all the tools. Its a farce if Frog was brought here to be any more than a serviceable back-up over the long haul. Last year was stop-gap, this year is different. Just give Manuel 12-15 minutes per game for now, and lets see what we have

by **ponyscott** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:21 pm

I was court side yesterday and looked at Jalen when he was close to Manuel when they warmed up before the game and at halftime. He is closer to 6'6 like Jalen, than 6'4 as listed, if anything he may be 6'5. That's a quality size for a PG in anyone's' league especially with his rock skills. Manuel needs to play more now and please especially during the slower half court set, as Jfrog can't get off a shot vs. a good size PG or SG...Jfrog is better on the run and in space then a slower set up game.

by **GiddyUp** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:27 pm

ponyscott wrote:I was court side yesterday and looked at Jalen when he was close to Manuel when they warmed up before the game and at halftime. He is closer to 6'6 like Jalen, than 6'4 as listed, if anything he may be 6'5. That's a quality size for a PG in anyone's' league especially with his rock skills. Manuel needs to play more now and please especially during the slower half court set, as Jfrog can't get off a shot vs. a good size PG or SG...Jfrog is better on the run and in space then a slower set up game.

I think Jfrog would be much more adapt to a run n gun type of deal, yes. Fast break dishes, etc.

by **hoopmanx** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:39 pm

I think both Frog & Manuel may be better uptempo, running high pick n roll action. Both kids handle, and are quick enough, to get opposing PGs on their hip, specifically coming off a ball screen. That's seriously like the #1 rule or objective of any motion o. The princeton has so much east/west action, that w/o a post presence, we never really get close to the basket. The first thing we should be trying to do is get in the lane

by **ponyscott** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:53 pm

But Manuel can come off a high ball screen and get into the lane and finish with a stop and pop or a slam...I haven't seen a situation where Jfrog can do that. He is too short to stop and pop in the lane as even a 3 or 4 can swat that away. Don't get me wrong as Jfrog serves a purpose and I like him, but I really saw his limitations against a taller athletic squad like Georgia Southern. And we will see much more talented guards in the coming games that will expose him even more. Manuel really intrigues me with his versatility and size.....I guess we will see as the season progresses.