Losing Ground

[Stallion]

as I've pointed out now several times an almost UNIVERSAL recipe for building a Basketball program includes the recruitment of JC players. With signing date just about a week away 1) just about every school in Texas including UT, A&M, Tech(3), Baylor(2), TCU(2), UH, UTEP, NTSU, Texas San Antonio have signed JUCOs, 2) just about every school in the WAC including UTEP(2), Fresno(3), Hawaii(2), San Jose(3), Tulsa, La Tech have signed JUCOs. In addition, Nevada and Boise St. are both in the hurt for multiple JUCOs with scholarships remaining to give. SMU after losing Quienton Ross will be weaker while other teams across the country are reloading and getting better with players who will help their teams next year. I'm sure it will all be Mike Dement's fault when these JUCO recruits light SMU up as they did countless times this year.

[This message has been edited by Stallion (edited 04-08-2003).]

[This message has been edited by Stallion (edited 04-08-2003).]

[Nacho]

Who do you think is responsible for not allowing SMU to recruit juco players? I know for sure that it is not the faculty. Dement may end up being fired because he wasn't allowed to recruit juco players and therefore become more competitive. How ironic would that be?

When are the people who support SMU going to wake up and see what is going on? I'm afraid it will only happen after the teams are shut down.

[This message has been edited by Nacho (edited 04-08-2003).]

[TUfan]

Small correction-- TU has not signed any JUCO's for this year's class. However the intent is to sign two in the spring signing period. The JUCO's are not for building the Tulsa program, but rather to maintain where we are while giving the income freshmen and returning (to be) sophmores a little more time to develop in the post.

[EastStang]

Ummm, Syracuse won with true freshman, one sophomore, and a non-qualifier who did not go to junior college. The MVP of the tournament was a true freshman not a juco player.

[Nacho]

I don't have the time but go count how many jucos are on their football team and KU's. Stop when you get to 20.

[50's PONY]

Nacho,
So are you saying we should trade our football team for K.U.'s because they have juco's? Last time I looked it hadn't made much difference.

[Stallion]

The new coach Mangino is the one who is heavily recruiting the JC ranks and he had perhaps the top JC Class in the Country with 15 JC signees. Check back in two years before drawing conclusions. Basically, KU is just tired of getting its [deleted] kicked by Kansas St. JC which has about 40+ JCs. But let me ask you because you appear to be another one in denial-considering that 9 out Kansas' Top 10 recruits this year are JC Transfers are you going to claim that KU could somehow be better without this slice of the athlete pie. Their High School recruiting was largely a fiasco. The point is that if you want to play on an even playing field with your competitors the coach who you hire should be the one who should judge whether High School Player A or Junior College Player B can best help his program.

[This message has been edited by Stallion (edited 04-08-2003).]

[BigEasyPony]

Maybe I am of the minority but the last time I checked the best way to build a program is through high school recruits. You can check the roster of every team that made the NCAA's and they are all dominated by high school recruits. Your point is a good one however that JUCO players are more physically mature and SMU should perhaps sprinkle their roster with a few JUCO players, but I hardly think it is the recipe for success. Your argument goes a lot further in football, but I just don't buy it in basketball. It only takes a few difference makers to be successful in basketball as opposed to football. I will agree that since Dement has been unsuccessful in ever attracting a legitimate post player that he should look to the JUCO ranks for one.

[Stallion]

you need to check again then because your position is in the VAST minority of NCAA Tournament Teams. Go tell it to Bobby Knight, Eddie Sutton, Rick Barnes Dave Bliss, and Kelvin Sampson among the most prominent in our region.

[This message has been edited by Stallion (edited 04-08-2003).]

[Nacho Cheese]

Stallion, does us a favor, check your databases for a JC wide reciever, Lawrence Whittington. Nephew of Arthur Whittington. Come back and tells us how many stars he had, and all that sort of thing.

[Stallion]

none I've already checked. The only Whittington I came up with in even a Yahoo search was a kid that went to Wabash a few years ago out of Richardson. Is this the same guy. He's not a scholarship player is he?

[Nacho Cheese]

Dont know about the scholarship, but I'm assuming he is. The father of one of the other players talked like he was. Said he was lightning fast. Couldnt say myself, Saturday was the first time I ever saw him.
He's from Richardson Berkner, guessing its the same guy you found.

[Stallion]

generally Blue Chippers don't start off at Wabash U. excuse me make that Washburn U. in Missouri.

[This message has been edited by Stallion (edited 04-08-2003).]

[d_pony]

Whittington is a walkon

[BigEasyPony]

Which of the teams you mentioned is dominated by JUCO recruits. I do not believe that each of the coaches you mentioned has more than 7 JUCO players on his team. I think each of the coaches probably use JUCO players to supplement their roster. JUCO recruits provide solid depth. The way I see it UT has one (1) JUCO player on their roster, tech has four (4) JUCO's and Ok. State has four (4) as well. A few notes to that are whether or not Bobby Knight recruited all those JC players and Ok. State has eighteen (18) players on their roster so four is quite a minority. I didn't bother checking Baylor. I think without exception all these coaches recruit JUCO's to fill in gaps and provide depth. Their focus remains high school recruits.

Syracuse won the NCAA tournament led by two (2) very talented freshmen ball players. Kansas on the other hand made the championship game led by four (4) year players who were well schooled in Roy Williams' system.



[This message has been edited by BigEasyPony (edited 04-09-2003).]