Mustang Band ain't what it used to be

[DiamondM]

I tried. I really tried. To not let this push my buttons, ...

Mr. Pony, if you truly believe that allowing women in the band is why it "ain't what it used to be" you are, with all "due" respect, an idiot. I predict that if you asked every single person who could have been in the SMU Mustang Band in the last 15 years and chose not to, NOT A SINGLE ONE would say that the reason why they didn't join is because there are icky, wussy girls in the band.

As for the talent level, that too has no discernable correlation to gender.

And for "spirt" or dedication to the band as an organization, why don't you wander down to the band hall and check what names are on the plaques for Outstanding Freshman, Outstanding Upperclassmen, Spirit, and Unsung Hero throughout the last 15 years when there have been increasing numbers of women in the band? You might be surprised at what you find.

But it wasn't even Mr. Pony who pushed my buttons on this one -- I just figured he was a bitter old fart nostalgic for the man love days of yore. It was Diamond M75. Whether you want to believe every ill facing the band and the athletic program is the fault of Dr. Pye, I am so sick of discussing that one, I won't even try. People will believe what they want to believe. But to suggest that Title IX is the culprit is ridiculous too. I bet you've never even read it. It's a convenient scape goat for many especially Big College Football, so that the rampant, unchecked spending on coaches' salaries, pre-game meals and hotel stays, booster travel, chartered planes, Mahogany paneling in offices, and every other truly unnecessary expense doesn't get blamed for having to cut a program that costs a fraction of what some big programs spend on lunch. But I'm sure you're just repeating what you've heard about Title IX. I'd be happy to have a spirited debate on this offline, but you better do your homework before hand. I have.

[mr. pony]

Before I comment, are you male or female?

[mr. pony]

Title IX? I didn't think of that.

By the way, the track team ain't what it used to be either.

[PK]

mr. pony, DiamondM is female. Check in with the alumni band and hang around the Vard and get to know some of the PonyFans...it might keep you out of trouble.

[mr. pony]

Uhhh.
This is trouble?

[DiamondM75]

DiamondM,

Well if it ain't Dr. Pye's atheltic model and the equality gender scholarships dictated by Title IX, then what is it? Jim Copeland even admitted that he had to cut the men's track team or add more women's sports, which he didn't have the funds to add, so he had to cut the men's track team. This is a direct result of Title IX. Didn't baseball have the same demise? So don't tell me that Title IX did not have a major effect on the status of SMU athletics.

Dr. Pye's athletic model also handcuffed the recruiting of athletes to the hilltop. Making a recruit apply and be accepted by the University before he could make an official visit is just stupid. Maybe at the beginning of Pye's tenure it made sense, buy not 15 years later. The faculty senate has too much power over the acceptance of athlete's. If you want D1 athletics, then you better play by D1 rules. Nothing more, nothing less. Not by academian's rules.

[couch 'em]

Everyone agrees that Pye had a big hand in preventing the football team from returning to greatness, and thus getting us left out when the SWC broke up. Title IX is responsible for more women's sports - that do not generate revenue - and thus the football share of the limited athletic budget is smaller than it could potentially be. Before you ask, I did not read Title IX line for line like I'm sure you have, but it doesn't matter. It is the cause of more women's sports whether it is interpreted correctly or not. Both of these lead to crappy football, playing against teams nobody cares about. That is the biggest cause. Lesser causes include declining population of middle class students, and culture. If we were in the Big 12, the band would not be only 60 people.

Although I do think the large female population of the band hurts band retention, at least in the last 5 years, but that is for another thread.

[mrydel]

Good, bad, big small, male, female, white, black, whatever, if I may just make a separate comment. The band at the Rice game which included the alumni folk, was tremendous. That is not a comment on the band without the alumni band which is and always has been great, but it was a beautiful sound and did remind me of my days back in the late 60's early 70's when there were more members. It brought back some fond memories. To those of you today, keep up the good work and I do honestly hope for a little increase in size through whatever measures possible. Never however like the UT band that can not move because they are squashed together on the field.

Now....back to arguing.

[Peruna_Ate_My_Rolex]

Trotting 60 something folks out on a Div IA college football field is no way to run a band.

How did the band get this way?

WOMEN! That killed the band.

It's gone from "96 guys and a gal", to "60 something politically correct musicians, some of whom play the piccolo". The PICCOLO??

The answer? Go back to an all-male all-brass Mustang Band. Make it something unique and the numbers will go right back up.

Do us a favor and quit living in the past. It's not the 1970s and it never will be. As fun as it might have been, that will never happen again. I've heard the stories often and I think they're great but I hate to say that it was an era that will never happen again. So why not just take what you have and cherish and realize that you were a part of a special era and time. So instead of getting on here and sounding like some old, bitter curmudgeon, why not do something positive like help the band? You can sit there and have these wild fantasies about an all male group but it isn't going to happen. You may not like it but it's the truth.

If you want to do something about the state of the organization, then put your money where that big mouth of yours is and make a difference. If not, then just go back to living under your rock and dream about the "good ol' days." To paraphrase what Coach once said...Let us know when you run the S.O.B. 'cause you're out.

[MrMustang1965]

Don't know about the rest of ya, but the Mustang Band was coming thru LOUD AND CLEAR on The Ticket tonight from the game in Houston. SOUNDED GREAT hearing "Peruna" played over-and-over-and-over-and-over....

[Peruna_Ate_My_Rolex]

Yep and I could hear them coming through loud and clear on the Post Game show as well.

[smu96]

It was great having them at the game tonight! They helped create a great atmosphere for the fans. They sounded great, and I think it's mostly because they have women members!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MustangSally]

RGV,

I agree that SMU could learn a lot from the HBCU showband community, in some aspects.

Now don't think I'm trying to tell the directors how to do their jobs, trust me, they are amazing. This is just an idea I had: the band should totally market itself as a showband. I think that the previous director kept trying to label us a mix of "traditional big 10 style" and "modern drum corps style." I'd go with door number 3, showband style, which often is a mix of the other two anyways so it's not like its a far cry from what the band is already doing.
How SMU currently can identify itself with other showbands:
-Music, playing jazz, rock, some funk. sure it's not top 40 rap, but it's familiar music that many people know, not that "Joan of Arc" or "Pictures at an exhibition" crap that TCU puts on. I posted a version of our "Boogie Wonderland" on some showband forum and they went nuts. Many showbands play that song, and several posters said our version was the most awesome one they'd ever heard. Just an example. Without getting into dangerous territory, jazz has STRONG roots as a cultural symbol of african americans, just like rap is now. Point is, the showband crowd wouldn't think we were awful if they heard one of our shows.
-Uniforms-we have a traditional look, and don't go for the sleek, genderless unitards that drum and bugle corps wear. We also wear spats, the white things over the shoes to emphasize the marching style.
-High step marching - we do it, showbands do it, nothing different at all about it. Some of the best marchers in the SMU band were people that marched in showband style high school bands wear they had already learned how to high step march.
-Squad drill - Moffit drill, precision drill, occasionally some point-to-point drill, this is EXACTLY what most showbands do, same as SMU

The only big difference is the SMU band does not do a "dance number" on the field. Other than that, the style of the SMU band is right on par with most showbands.

Some problems: SMU in general recruits from high schools that wouldn't have showbands. DISD is the only real source of this in the metroplex area, but SMU draws many more students from Plano ISD, Richardson, Mesquite, etc. Also, outside of Texas, SMU gets most students from California, Illinois, Oklahoma, Florida, boarding schools back east. Most showbands are only in the southeast, notice that's where most universities that have showbands also are. They feed off each other, the high schools emulate the colleges, then the colleges recruit the high school kids.

Also, money is another big problem. I know, I know, this sounds like another big plug for the Diamond M Club, but hear me out. Here in Florida, the two big HBCU's are FAMU, and Bethune-Cookman College. Both are state schools with relatively low tuition (under 10,000 a year), and their bands often give scholarships of several thousands of dollars, and these are big bands with several hundred members. That's a nice selling point. Compare that to SMU with 35,000 a year tuition and about 1,900 to each band member. And, that scholarship is pretty skewed because those numbers reflect a very small band. If the band were bigger right now, the money would probably be less per person.

Bottom line, the SMU Mustang Band will continue to do what it does, and will still fill some ranks with students from Flower Mound, Austin, Mesquite, Plano, Garland, etc. IN ADDITION, I think the band could really do well to distinguish itself as a unique showband. Rather than selling yourself as a "traditional big 10 style band" (who cares, its not like kids from Big 10 country are looking at SMU because of that), instead hype up that you are a high-steppin showband. Perform at a DISD battle of the bands or some DISD friday night game. Let them see what we are like, and how we are not that different. SMU was always dying to find some connections to Dallas, well here is the perfect bridge to connect the two.

[Diamond Girl]

I hate to say this because a) I'm a woman and b) I was in the band, but if the women who are currently in the band could play as loudly as the men play, then the band would be even better and numbers wouldn't matter as much.

[couch 'em]

In all honesty, the women are bringing down the men to their level of volume and their view of culture. The hardcore element that you old guys describe is completely gone, unless it has resurged in the last year, but I doubt it. It aggravated me to no end that I could not tell girls they were wrong and needed to fix something because half of them would cry and the other half were too insecure to accept they screwed up and would argue even when everyone agreed they were screwing up. Thus the problem would never get fixed. Of course, there were a few exceptions to this. However, there is nothing you can do about it - just work around the problem.