MAX WILLIAMS IS FULL OF --IT

by **jtstang** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:26 am

MustangIcon wrote: If your record is terrible AND you have some sort of infractions then it is pretty easy to justify a firing.

Other than burgers and Cheer, to what infractions are you referring?

by **MustangIcon** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:46 am

JT if you read my post it says "some sort of infractions." I do not and have not ever claimed to know what they are. I would like to know but at this point I do not and am not sure if I will ever be privileged to the information. All I know is that if there were ANY infractions that would be enough to fire a coach.

by **MustangIcon** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:56 am

You are right Hoop, we are no Nebraska. But my point is, in the world of college athletics when having a winning season and running a clean program can still lead to being fired you can't be that shocked and upset that a coach with poor on court performance AND NCAA violations (of any kind) would get canned. Maybe the violations were more of a last straw type thing. Sort of like well we can put up with the fact that we aren't playing/recruiting very well but that in combonation with any NCAA infractions is just unacceptable.

by **Hoop Fan** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:59 am

MustangIcon wrote:You are right Hoop, we are no Nebraska. But my point is, in the world of college athletics when having a winning season and running a clean program can still lead to being fired you can't be that shocked and upset that a coach with poor on court performance AND NCAA violations (of any kind) would get canned. Maybe the violations were more of a last straw type thing. Sort of like well we can put up with the fact that we aren't playing/recruiting very well but that in combonation with any NCAA infractions is just unacceptable.

the last straw after 2 years?!!!! He didn't inherit the Fab 5. Sorry, that might be before your time. My point is precisely that last straws do not come until year 4 or 5 of a guys tenure, especially in a turnaround situation.

by **MustangIcon** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:16 am

Please refer to my post about the bet I am willing to make Hoop. You say Tubbs inheritted a "disaster" and that 2 years is not enough in theis "turnaround situation". Whoever our new coach is will be in an EVEN WORSE situation than Tubbs and will do at least as good (or bad depending on how you look at it) as Tubbs did.

by **angryfan04** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:57 pm

Thanks Max

by **tmustangp** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:28 pm

MustangIcon wrote:I dont care if he had an agenda. He donates much more than you do Hoop. And Tubbs is a [deleted] coach. Case closed!

i don't give a flying [deleted] how much money he donates.. that was horse&%$# what he did and he is a hypocrit.. not everyday the dmn calls you a hypocrit.. eventhough they didn't do it with those exact words

by **newshound** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:43 pm

Max did us all a favor. Now, he needs to cut a few checks for Moody and the practice facility. If his grandson has any kind of game, that would help, too.

Remember this about Max, he was one of the best players in school history. He was on the all-time SWC team for its first 50 years and, without him, there would be no San Antonio Spurs. He is, if nothing else, a basketball man. Perhaps he's as sick of the losing as anyone else.

Go Max Go!

by **StangEsq** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 2:34 am

MustangIcon wrote:JT if you read my post it says "some sort of infractions." I do not and have not ever claimed to know what they are. I would like to know but at this point I do not and am not sure if I will ever be privileged to the information. All I know is that if there were ANY infractions that would be enough to fire a coach.

Horsesh!t... if that were true, you could fire every coach in the nation. There isn't a person on this board or at SMU who can honestly say that any coach should be fired solely over a cup of laundry detergent.

You fire a coach because of poor performance. You fire a coach for major infractions. You fire a coach for a combination of mid-level infractions and poor performance. No one fires a coach for donating detergent. That's just stupid and blind.

by **Stallion** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 9:26 am

Icon you are legally wrong-there must be an intentional, material as opposed to technical breach of contract. There have been several cases in recent years where Courts found much more serious violations did not constitute just cause for firing a Coach. If you had a morals clause in your employment contract would your employer be justified in firing you for ANY violation of the law from misdemeanors up. I think if he hadn't settled then based on the information released SMU has not yet shown a just cause for breaking his contract. Not saying that they don't have one but just that they haven't released one yet. Considering the disasterous long term effects this could have on SMU recruiting that was a huge blunder. And I really wasn't on the fire Copeland bandwagon but I would have been after this unnecessary debacle. Simply incompetence.

by **Hoop Fan** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 9:44 am

The whole thing has been handled extremely badly. I loved the Orsini hire and I want to close my eyes and give him a free pass on this debacle, but even in a distant oversight role, how could he let this happen this way? If Copeland did all this, I would be extremely mad if i was Orsini. Turner should have known better too, but ever since he jabbed Blackistone and Watkins about the lack of DMN coverage at that press conference, I have been worried about his handle on public relations. Blackistone took the public jab and promptly ripped us a new one in his column the very next day. How predictable was that?

by **jtstang** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:08 am

I can no longer ignore the possibility that this could have been orchestrated by Orsini, not wanting to fire a coach as his first official SMU action, with the lame duck Copeland taking the fall for it. It will be interesting to see whether Orsini sanctions Maxie for his conduct in all of this, and going back to regime of the '80s. That decision could be telling on a possible Orsini role in Burgergate.

by **abezontar** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:26 am

jtstang wrote:I can no longer ignore the possibility that this could have been orchestrated by Orsini, not wanting to fire a coach as his first official SMU action, with the lame duck Copeland taking the fall for it. It will be interesting to see whether Orsini sanctions Maxie for his conduct in all of this, and going back to regime of the '80s. That decision could be telling on a possible Orsini role in Burgergate.

I'm not trying to resolve Orsini of all responsibility, but the recent insider rumors I have heard were that SMU was planning on ditching Tubbs before Copeland announced retirement.

by **Hoop Fan** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:28 am

abezontar wrote:
jtstang wrote:I can no longer ignore the possibility that this could have been orchestrated by Orsini, not wanting to fire a coach as his first official SMU action, with the lame duck Copeland taking the fall for it. It will be interesting to see whether Orsini sanctions Maxie for his conduct in all of this, and going back to regime of the '80s. That decision could be telling on a possible Orsini role in Burgergate.

I'm not trying to resolve Orsini of all responsibility, but the recent insider rumors I have heard were that SMU was planning on ditching Tubbs before Copeland announced retirement.

"Ditching" is certainly a good word for it.

by **MustangIcon** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:48 am

I agree. This very easily could be orchestrated by Orsini. Maybe coming in he felt that Tubbs wouldn't lead us back to being a good program. In his defense, as the AD people look at you when things aren't going well. If his head is going to roll when things are bad then he probably won't stick with the hand he was dealt by the lameduck of all AD's(this might be the one thing EVERYONE on this board can agree with), Copeland.

I wonder if he has a very close eye on this upcoming football season for PB. I really feel like we will do well though, which makes this an irrellevant point.

MAX WILLIAMS IS FULL OF --IT

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