Cutting our losses with Tubbs

[Mexmustang]

In my opinion there are several points that are highly probable:

Tubbs did bend the rules. He participated in a program at OK that certainly broke them. He probably broke them here at SMU.

Copeland made a bad hire. Copeland never put the energy into finding a new basketball coach when Tubbs was hired. Tubbs was an easy hire. Tubbs was over his head from the start, beginning with his communication skills. Head coaches at any university need a variety of skills. Coaching basketball is only part of the challenge.

Anyone that has been a high school coach in the DISD as long as Tubbs has just as many enemies as friends. Tubbs didn't put the energy into rebuilding these relationships.

Every player that sits on the bench thinks they should get more playing time. Especially on a team that is losing and playing without heart. Make that player 18 years old and you can bet on it.

As rabid a fan as grandpa is you don't through the baby out with the wash. You don't try to put the program on probation if your only interested in firing the coach.

Copeland went to the NCAA, not grandpa.

What I heard from Max's friends that maynot be true:

Max did not want his grandson going to SMU, if SMU was only trying to tie in his financial support and his grandson could not realistically compete for playing time. Tubbs assured Max that his son could and would play--a legitimate recruit.

His grandson did complain about playing time, but was slowed by injury and couldn't perform in practice and Tubbs didn't play him.

For most of the season, he couldn't practice after undergoing an operation so the whole discussion was mute.

Max did several financial favors for Tubbs, including providing money to spruce up the coaches offices. These favors should not be viewed as a violation of any rules.

Tubbs kept asking for more and Max provided. The was a break in the friendship when Tubbs came up with a scheme to cross the line. Max was asked to fund a golf tournament that would be the basis of paying families of recruits.

Max went to Copeland and volunteered to buyout Tubbs contract.

The sources of the Dallas Morning News articles about burgers and detergent were employees of the athletic department and Tubbs.

Max did not want the school to go to the NCAA, but to handle the problem internally. Again, don't throw the baby out with the wash.

Copeland completely botched the deal, when he couldn't pursuade Tubbs to leave voluntarily with his money in hand and made it a public relations nightmare.

Do I know what is true or false, no. But I do think it is time to move on, wish the best for Tubbs, Max and his grandson and support the new energy and personnel in the athletic department and basketball program.

Like preaching to an ex-wife--it is time to get over it!

[jtstang]

Well, no wonder. You apparently run in Max's circle of friends. Perhaps you could ask him why he was reported in the morning news as having admitted he gave Tubbs money to buy players meals. And why he refused to be interviewed by the Bishops' panel in the '80s in connection with the investigation that resulted in the Death Penalty. I have my doubts that Max's involvement was as innocent as his "friends" have told you.

[Dopey Doowrong]

Ah ha ha ha...so it FINALLY breaks...not by me mind you...

Congratulations to Hoop Fan and jt...I've been secretly minting you a couple of trophies for the "Biggest [deleted] Poster(s) of the Year Award." You were indignant, emotionally blind, defamatory and, most of all, wrong. It goes without saying that you'll never admit it and I fully expect you will now start trying to distinguish your comments as simple opinions designed to elicit the facts.

I suppose if you're lucky you may even win a lawsuit over your tired rantings.

[Stallion]

what you are claiming is that Tubbs asked Max to help him create a slush fund of undesignated funds which I smelled from Day 1 but was lambasted for stating on this board. This type of arrangement is not unusual. If this in fact occurred then SMU should have disclosed this from Day 1 instead of throwing the school's relationship with DISD Coaches under the bus with ridiculous Cheaseburgler stories. I hate to be an Eisenhower but be very concerned when this university starts covering up the violations of its key alumni and Coaches. SMU owes it to its fans and alumni to be completely open about the nature of the violations from the very beginning. Every state school would be subject to a Freedom of Information request. I wish SMU was. I'm sure some of you think its just fine and dandy that SMU pulls a curtain over this-so did Clements, Cox, Shields, and Collins for about 3 straight probations-which made all of us think that SMU was being discriminated against by the NCAA and Belo. We might have saved the program if SMU administrators had simply told the truth to the SMU community.

[ponyboy]

I have posted here before that I too would like to see little Matty's scholarship yanked. My disdain for him is simple: guilt by association with Max.

That is perversely unfair, prejudiced, and mean spirited.

[Hoop Fan]

As rabid a fan as grandpa is you don't through the baby out with the wash. You don't try to put the program on probation if your only interested in firing the coach.

His grandson did complain about playing time, but was slowed by injury and couldn't perform in practice and Tubbs didn't play him.

Tubbs kept asking for more and Max provided. The was a break in the friendship when Tubbs came up with a scheme to cross the line. Max was asked to fund a golf tournament that would be the basis of paying families of recruits.

Max went to Copeland and volunteered to buyout Tubbs contract.

Copeland completely botched the deal, when he couldn't pursuade Tubbs to leave voluntarily with his money in hand and made it a public relations nightmare.

So the break in the 'friendship" had nothing to do with the complaint about playing time? Two mutually exclusive issues, huh? Riiiiight. What world do you people live in? The appearance of this is really bad and because of that Matt should leave. Max seemed all too interested in firing the coach and even based on your owned biased description sounds completely overzealous. One thing is for sure, somebody botched this bigtime. Tell us more about this golf tournament. Is this alleged or substantiated? We're not scared of the truth. The truth is the only thing that can fix this and it must be told sooner than later.

[ponyboy]

You do need to keep yourself open to the admittedly remote possibility, Hoop, that it was Tubbs who botched this "big time."

[Stallion]

oh we botched it again. Now instead of coming out with the real story and taking our lumps and then moving on two days later when a new NEWS cycle hit-here we are talking about the cheating of the old coach while the new coach has been hired. Plus we've built up resentment in the community due to bogus rumors about the reasons for Tubbs' dismissal.

[Big10Ponyfan]

Once again, jstang doesn't tell the whole story about the Max Williams incident.

1. True, he gave money to Tubbs to buy meals.

2. Fact, sources told the DMN Tubbs used his own money to buy meals.

3. From what I'm told, this wasn't a one-time or two-time this. He abused the NCAA rule that an infrequent meal purchase is permissible.

Jstang, do us a favor. Reread the story when Tubbs was fired and stop whining about Max Williams. I said it countless times, the body of violations was the problem along with the academic problems with players not going to class is what got Tubbs FIRED!!!

Other than that, your only axe to grind is against Williams. I guess you enjoyed a 268 RPI, a 4-10 CUSA record, no signings from the fall or commitments for the spring.

Please let us all know when have something else to offer other than this.
Your story has become tiresome.

Best regards,

[Hoop Fan]

You do need to keep yourself open to the admittedly remote possibility, Hoop, that it was Tubbs who botched this "big time."

here is what you do not seem to understand. I am completely open to that. The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Get it out in the public and only then can you repair the damage and truly move on in a situation like this. My concern is SMU. At the same time, I do not want to see Tubbs unfairly disparaged around here. what gets me is people like you who i thought were fair minded sit there in silence while idiots and haters spew a bunch of garbage unchecked.

[jtstang]

Ah ha ha ha...so it FINALLY breaks...not by me mind you...

Congratulations to Hoop Fan and jt...I've been secretly minting you a couple of trophies for the "Biggest [deleted] Poster(s) of the Year Award." You were indignant, emotionally blind, defamatory and, most of all, wrong. It goes without saying that you'll never admit it and I fully expect you will now start trying to distinguish your comments as simple opinions designed to elicit the facts.

Hey, I just read it in the newspaper.

[jtstang]

I have posted here before that I too would like to see little Matty's scholarship yanked. My disdain for him is simple: guilt by association with Max.

That is perversely unfair, prejudiced, and mean spirited.

Okay, at least its honest.

[Hoop Fan]

I have posted here before that I too would like to see little Matty's scholarship yanked. My disdain for him is simple: guilt by association with Max.

That is perversely unfair, prejudiced, and mean spirited.

mean spirited, maybe. Unfair, prejudiced, don't be ridiculous. Matt Williams does not have some unalienable right to be on the basketball team at SMU. You people keep saying get over and move on and I say exactly: bye Matt. If Matt and Max cared about SMu more than themselves that is what they would do and you know it.

[Big10Ponyfan]

What did you read? The thing about Tubbs using his own money was in the early april issue of the DMN. The Tubbs firing story.

To make your argument more concrete, you needed to include that.

And as for Tubbs' treatment, that's life. Look at what happened to Wayne Morgan at Iowa State. He had a better run there and was still canned.

Their administration said it had nothing to do with his connection to that scheduling operation, so read into that what you want.

Best regards

[Stallion]

....a story btw that was broken because of a Freedom of Information request.