Why is no one apoplectic about...

[mustangxc]

I have no problem with Turner going after the library. But I do have a problem with him not signing off on the best coaching candidate because of a "controversial past"

Have you been to a presidential library? I have. And for the most part the libraries have a museum that emphasize the positive aspects of a presidency. I feel sorry for the person tasked with orgnaizing this museum. I can't wait to see the blown up picture of Dubbya looking out of his window in Airforce One over a destroyed NOLA.

I don't know anything about the policy institute but it's supposed to be modeled after Stanford's Hoover Institute. Dubbya can only hope his institute get's the level of bi-partisan support the Hoover Institute gets.

So you really don't think Dubbya is going to be making appearances, giving speeches and holding forums on campus?

Oh and there's a good chance nobody will be able to see Dubbya's papers for a very long time if he has his way. Hopefully Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA) can get his bill passed though early next year that would rescind Dubbya's decree, that I believe keeps his papers under lock and key for twenty years.

I'd rather have a winning football team with a coach with a controversial past than monuments to this joker's legacy of brutality and idiocy.

Turner don't F it up...hire the best guy you possibly can.

The Bush Presidential Library and a controversial coach are not comparable. Of course a Presidential Library is going to focus on the positive aspects of that President's term, but it should also allow for the historical analysis of his term and the events that unfolded within his term.

If it's to be modeled after the Hoover Institute (by the way, Hoover was an awful President), then that will be another great addition to the University. Of course, I hope that the important documents are released so this administration can be properly judged by history, instead of propaganda and politics.

Now why does having a successful football program have to be tied to a controversial coach? If a coach has a controversial past is a candidate for the job, then his past should be closely examined and taken into account when seeing if his is suitable for the job, not just overlooked.

I agree with you for the most part. I just don't agree with SMU selectively applying a "controversy" litmus test whether it's for a library for a very controversial president or a football coach with "contoversial past".

I agree, it makes no sense to endorse the most controversial political figure in the world and then to say that SMU will not hire any coach with a controversial past. That is what Turner said. Like it or not, the perception of having the Bush library at SMU implies that SMU endorses his presidency, which is unquestionably controversial.

[perunapower]

I agree, it makes no sense to endorse the most controversial political figure in the world and then to say that SMU will not hire any coach with a controversial past. That is what Turner said. Like it or not, the perception of having the Bush library at SMU implies that SMU endorses his presidency, which is unquestionably controversial.

How? If anything it shows SMU endorses the examination of presidential administrations and historical analysis.

[dcpony]

I agree with you for the most part. I just don't agree with SMU applying a "controversy" litmus test whether it's for a library for a very controversial president or a football coach with "contoversial past".

The difference, in my opinion, is the library won't kill the university. At worst it'll be a waste of space at first because of Bush's executive order to withhold important documents (I think it's for 20 years). A bad coach, one that violates NCAA rules, has the potential to cripple our football program and subsequently our athletic department again. If we were found guilty of NCAA violations, it would be very hard to keep much of University in favor of athletics. Fair or not, a coach with a controversial past history of NCAA violations poses a risk that would need to be addressed if he were the top candidate (i.e. keeping a tight leash on him to minimize the possibility of NCAA violations).

Does Steve Malin ring a bell?

[mustangxc]

I agree, it makes no sense to endorse the most controversial political figure in the world and then to say that SMU will not hire any coach with a controversial past. That is what Turner said. Like it or not, the perception of having the Bush library at SMU implies that SMU endorses his presidency, which is unquestionably controversial.

How? If anything it shows SMU endorses the examination of presidential administrations and historical analysis.

I said that is the public perception. People will now associate SMU with Bush and all of his controversy, not as a research institution with great documents on Bush's presidency. Again, not saying I am pro or anti Bush, just that he is a controversial figure.

[SMUer]

I agree, it makes no sense to endorse the most controversial political figure in the world and then to say that SMU will not hire any coach with a controversial past. That is what Turner said. Like it or not, the perception of having the Bush library at SMU implies that SMU endorses his presidency, which is unquestionably controversial.

How? If anything it shows SMU endorses the examination of presidential administrations and historical analysis.

I said that is the public perception. People will now associate SMU with Bush and all of his controversy, not as a research institution with great documents on Bush's presidency. Again, not saying I am pro or anti Bush, just that he is a controversial figure.

Do you associate the University of Texas with the beginning of the Vietnam War (home of the LBJ library)? I'm quite sure that if you were to ask the palpably liberal History/Political Science departments at SMU if they are/aren't thrilled about the Bush library coming to SMU, they would confirm that they are. It gives them access of millions of documents to scour and makes SMU literally a mecca for scholars and historians who are interested in writing about Bush/the post 9/11 period.

[dcpony]

I agree, it makes no sense to endorse the most controversial political figure in the world and then to say that SMU will not hire any coach with a controversial past. That is what Turner said. Like it or not, the perception of having the Bush library at SMU implies that SMU endorses his presidency, which is unquestionably controversial.

How? If anything it shows SMU endorses the examination of presidential administrations and historical analysis.

I said that is the public perception. People will now associate SMU with Bush and all of his controversy, not as a research institution with great documents on Bush's presidency. Again, not saying I am pro or anti Bush, just that he is a controversial figure.

Do you associate the University of Texas with the beginning of the Vietnam War (home of the LBJ library)? I'm quite sure that if you were to ask the palpably liberal History/Political Science departments at SMU if they are/aren't thrilled about the Bush library coming to SMU, they would confirm that they are. It gives them access of millions of documents to scour and makes SMU literally a mecca for scholars and historians who are interested in writing about Bush/the post 9/11 period.

We're talking about SMU's willingness to associate with and or hire controversial people. Nobody's talking about talking getting rid of the library. I just don't want double standards.

[perunapower]

Does Steve Malin ring a bell?

I have no idea who that is.

[SMUer]

We're talking about SMU's willingness to associate with and or hire controversial people. Nobody's talking about no taking the library. I don't want double standards.

I realize that. You keep making this library/coach comparison whenever possible and I keep thinking it doesn't work very well. If you want to talk about how Turner hired a department chair who has been alleged to have been involved in dishonest spending at another institution...fine and fair...[double-standard alert goes off]...but I don't think not declining a presidential archive (whatever information it contains) and not wanting to hire someone who might be a bad man is on the same playing field. The harm that could be done from a morally/legally bad hire isn't analogous to any harm a library could bring...and the harm that is done doesn't affect SMU in the same way.

Listen, I think Turner's statement is chickensh*t as heck (Turner, you don't have faith enough in your judgment, at your level, to being able to entertain applicants with a checkered past?) but the library argument isn't a good one.

[MustangPride]

Hey dc pony< What the ****? The is a football blog, in other words, not the best place to discuss politics.

[crazy horse]

Bush has the power to stop hurricanes and other acts of nature? I never knew that. That must be an awesome responsibility...

[dcpony]

All right I'll stop. I just want moral consistency. I'm glad we got the library.

Malin was one of Cavan's assistants. He was hiring people to take SATs for a few recruits. We lost a couple of scholarships for a year or two because of Malin's actions.

This thread is starting to beat me down.

End of discussion.

[gostangs]

You are the one beating down the unfortunate readers of this thread with your NY Times gibberish. Bush will be vindicated quite nicely by a psuedo democracy (as close as you can get in the Midle East anyway) sitting where a tyrant ruled for decades. Regardless of their govt outcome, we will have about five new permanent militay bases in the middle east for the rest of our lifetimes to make sure the whackies don't get really damgerous.

And the NOLA blame is beyond a reach - underfunded levees for what - 8 adminstrations?? Maybe the democratic govenor should have done something besides rejected the offer for help. Get a grip move on dot DC!!

Can't wait for the conservative think tank to get rolling right here in good old SMU to get people like this DC wanker even more riled up. Bring it on!

[dcpony]

You are the one beating down the unfortunate readers of this thread with your NY Times gibberish. Bush will be vindicated quite nicely by a psuedo democracy (as close as you can get in the Midle East anyway) sitting where a tyrant ruled for decades. Regardless of their govt outcome, we will have about five new permanent militay bases in the middle east for the rest of our lifetimes to make sure the whackies don't get really damgerous.

And the NOLA blame is beyond a reach - underfunded levees for what - 8 adminstrations?? Maybe the democratic govenor should have done something besides rejected the offer for help. Get a grip move on dot DC!!

Can't wait for the conservative think tank to get rolling right here in good old SMU to get people like this DC wanker even more riled up. Bring it on!

You're mom's a wanker.

[perunapower]

You are the one beating down the unfortunate readers of this thread with your NY Times gibberish. Bush will be vindicated quite nicely by a psuedo democracy (as close as you can get in the Midle East anyway) sitting where a tyrant ruled for decades. Regardless of their govt outcome, we will have about five new permanent militay bases in the middle east for the rest of our lifetimes to make sure the whackies don't get really damgerous.

And the NOLA blame is beyond a reach - underfunded levees for what - 8 adminstrations?? Maybe the democratic govenor should have done something besides rejected the offer for help. Get a grip move on dot DC!!

Can't wait for the conservative think tank to get rolling right here in good old SMU to get people like this DC wanker even more riled up. Bring it on!

Wow. This thread is going to hell in a handbasket.

[Insane_Pony_Posse]

I agree "gostangs", it is really pathetic for someone like dcpony to bring leftwing garbage Bush Hate talking points on to this SMU sports message board. This is not a forum to debate Clinton's shameful record or the Bush Presidential Library that is coming to SMU. Lamely using Turner as an excuse to bring up a political agenda. Instead of talking sports on a sports messsage board, vomit up NY Times (are they still in business?) BushHate. I suppose he/she needs to use a sports message board to spout political rhetoric instead of being on political message board where he/she might get his arse handed to him in a political debate forum.