Coaching Candidates

[George S. Patton]

I think Doherty is back next year but if this thing completely implodes this year -- like the Tulane W was the last one -- you could make the case to make the move.

Really, the recruiting is pretty flat. We have a 6-10 project coming in and there really isn't much beyond on that. Doherty could chase off a couple and get a couple of JUCOs in May but your roster is what it is and the results are what they are.

The Crum center can help the next regime.

My boy the General wants to coach again. Nah, wishful thinking.

I have no idea who would be a good fit for this job.

I think you are right about the JUCO situation.
IMO, Doh has to go that route & find a couple of immediate impact players.
I don't think he can afford to go the "build the program the right way" approach anymore.
Attached is an article about Alford & UNM that talks about the JUCO approach.

http://www.abqtrib.com/news/2007/apr/11 ... fill-gaps/

And if that's the direction he goes, he better get someone who is a beast in the low block. When was the last time we had a legitimate inside presence -- Castro and Simpson?

[WildBillPony]

Doh will be back next year. Guarantee it. Anybody want to take a legitimate bet? How about we pick a guy to hold the money?

Absolutely will be back. The guy knows his basketball. It does need to start falling his and the team's way way. When it does, SMU basketball will be the better for it. SMU has not had a harder working, more knowledgeable basketball coach in a long, long time. If Doherty does not do it here, heaven help the next guy.

[PonyDoh]

80% of that original head coaching list, we can't sniff. Anthony Grant, for example, turned down both South Carolina and LSU, whether their fans admit that or not, b/c he thinks he'll be able to do better. Rumor has it Maryland has already been in touch w/Grant etc. St Mary's and Dayton are just better programs right now etc.

As for assistants, a guy like Russell Springman is a stud, but he's east coast as well. Look at his hauls, Kevin Durant, Tristan Thompson, Myke Kabongo are all DC/Jersey kids. He's also known in that neck of the woods to be somewhat shady. When he takes a head job, it'll be back east, unless some BCS style search flops and they are forced to grab an assistant.

Either way, Doh is going to get some time to see McCoy/Otis/Nyakundi mature. Those 3 kids, plus Haynes, can be pretty darn serviceable. Dia has potential, but I have no idea what's happened to him. He's a head scratcher and the biggest reason we aren't a lot better. After last year, people actually had legit expectations for the kid, myself included. He's just MIA.

Don't forget we'd be several wins better if the Dubois incident didn't go down. That kid was a helluva evaluation by the staff that just went bad. Jared and family had their reasons, and I think they are legit, but the loss still hurts. Doh has a few years to put some talent around the frosh nucleus as the sophs have flamed out. That class needs to be rebuilt through proven jucos. We'll see what he does, but the 09 class isn't encouraging thus far.

[LA_Mustang]

Don't forget we'd be several wins better if the Dubois incident didn't go down. That kid was a helluva evaluation by the staff that just went bad. Jared and family had their reasons, and I think they are legit, but the loss still hurts.

no kidding. I just looked at the LMU site....as a freshman, Dubois is leading the team in minutes, second in scoring at 13.5 pts....and he is averaging 22 pts a game in the last 6, including 39 pts in one game......he was the scoring 2 guard we so desperately needed

[papawasamustang]

Don't forget we'd be several wins better if the Dubois incident didn't go down. That kid was a helluva evaluation by the staff that just went bad. Jared and family had their reasons, and I think they are legit, but the loss still hurts.

no kidding. I just looked at the LMU site....as a freshman, Dubois is leading the team in minutes, second in scoring at 13.5 pts....and he is averaging 22 pts a game in the last 6, including 39 pts in one game......he was the scoring 2 guard we so desperately needed

I have posted many x's about Dubois but the facts are that he has never put on a mustang uniform & its another on the long list of would of, could of, should of. The W & L's speak for themselves & it doesn't take long to notice the lack of execution both on the O & D end of the courts that this team is really struggling and I ask the question why?
Yes, in the right situation Dubois could of helped but there would be no guarantee that the coaching influence would create another Benny Rhodes or Alex Malone type situation. Player development is another very questionable area for this coaching staff. The list goes on & on & that's why its time to head it in a different direction unless we see a turnaround like what Tulsa did last year. They were 1-5 & 2-6 in conference before they finished @ 8-8 . I would love to see that kind of turnaround but there are no signs of something like that happening.

[PonyDoh]

I think you're jumping the gun a little bit. I'm the first to say that our execution is abysmal and that the roster has been a merry-go round, but very few coaches get fired in year 3, when they've had 2 recruiting classes under their belt. Obviously, the results are awful right now, and they mostly look lost on the court, so I'm not against a change, if this is what we're seeing at the end of next year. For heavens sake, the only senior on the roster is Fall, and he was barely recruited out of high school. The junior class is only marginally better b/c of JUCO's and transfers.

Doh has many issues, the first of which was his early reluctance to go the JUCO route. I understand why he didn't, as its not the climate of the schools he's been to before, short of Kansas, now that Self is the coach. JUCO's are like a dirty word in the ACC, nobody wants them, as they are seen as stop-gap options for those that plan rosters poorly.

In the SW, it's a different cup of tea. JUCO's are pretty much the norm, and you can't fill gaps w/McD AA's at every turn, especially at a struggling program like SMU. In short, he made the wrong call w/how to load the roster up. He also didn't keep serviceable moving parts, he gutted the whole roster Day 1. No doubt, another mistake.

He obviously has carte blanche to do anything he wants w/the roster, so what he probably looks at as a strength, is a weakness to you/me and a myriad of others. He views the roster as flexible, where he keeps what works and tosses the rest to the curb. I see that as a way to build a reputation as a user. Caring more about the ship, then the kid you convinced you'd take care of, on the in-home. Much like what happened w/Dubois, bridges get burned. I still laugh at some of you this past summer, that thought Jared was scared of competition, so good riddance. What you tell kids about how they'll be used matters. When you tell them you're recruiting 2 guards, get them to sign, and then bring a 3rd on, that's basically lying to a kid before he steps on campus.

Anyway, I'm not a fan of what's happening in and around this program, but I'm not going to slash and burn it, before it has a chance to do something. At this rate, I'm not sure it ever will, but its still fairly early in this process. Gotta give him through next season. At that point, a serious sit down and review need to be done. Add a tough JUCO or two this offseason, and the team doesn't look too bad, come next year. A lot depends on what happens on the trail this Spring/Summer.

[papawasamustang]

PonyDoh,

U know I respect your opinion but we are just going to have disagree about how much time should be allowed to turn this program around. 3 years is plenty. Doh was talking 20 & 10 this year & there's a very good chance we end up with a 20+ loss season & fewer than 10 wins. I didn't buy his BS about the 20 wins just like I don't see RK being the best shooter he has ever coached. However, I do go to the games & I do see enough talent to win 15 games. You can't fire the team although Doh is trying to cover up his recruiting mistakes & run some of the kids off. You have to fire the coach & that needs to happen if this team doesn't show major improvement over the remainder of this season.

Hopefully a situation like what happened in Tulsa last season will occur but all signs seem to indicate that it will not happen.

We can all point to the future AGAIN & AGAIN like we do every year but I really don't see any improvement in this program other than McCoy & what happens if he has had enough after one year & says see ya.

[EastStang]

Papa - I respect you, but I disagree with you on the 3 year thing. First, we fired Tubbs after two seasons, if we fire Doherty after three, we'll start getting a reputation of a school that runs off coaches and then our candidate will be a JV coach from Dallas Academy. Even if he fails, we at least have to let the world know that we gave Doh a legitimate chance to succeed. Second, the buyout could negatively impact what we could spend on the next coach. Third, unless Bill Self, Coach K, or some other iconic coach is calling Steve O five times a day offering to coach here, we're then out searching for a coach. I get the feeling that Steve-O likes to only make a move when he has a target locked in his sights. I would not be surprised if next year if the record is the same, to see Steve make a move and I would not be surprised if it was a former opposing coach.

[RGV Pony]

a former opposing coach.

such as?

[papawasamustang]

Papa - I respect you, but I disagree with you on the 3 year thing. First, we fired Tubbs after two seasons, if we fire Doherty after three, we'll start getting a reputation of a school that runs off coaches and then our candidate will be a JV coach from Dallas Academy. Even if he fails, we at least have to let the world know that we gave Doh a legitimate chance to succeed. Second, the buyout could negatively impact what we could spend on the next coach. Third, unless Bill Self, Coach K, or some other iconic coach is calling Steve O five times a day offering to coach here, we're then out searching for a coach. I get the feeling that Steve-O likes to only make a move when he has a target locked in his sights. I would not be surprised if next year if the record is the same, to see Steve make a move and I would not be surprised if it was a former opposing coach.

Excellent points.
The flip side is it could be more harmful to let this staff stay when they can & will see the writing on the wall.
I just don't see what Doh has done to earn a 4th year if #3 doesn't turn around immediately. Next, we will be into our 4th losing season & everyone will be saying lets give him one more year.
Sometimes you have to cut your ties when its obvious things aren't working. 3 years is plenty.
I do disagree with the reputation of running off coaches. They understand the biz (W's & L's) & there will always be very qualified applicants available.

[Jumpshooter]

Doh will be back next season and probably make it to year five.

Bottom line, though, is that the program is a mess. Doh is not a good game day coach, has missed on the majority of kids he has brought into the program and made a HUGE mistake not bringing in two JUCOs (a post and a wing) in his first full class (the seven-man freshman disaster that looks like it might have 1.5 decent players in it and that many on this board were trying to trumpet as a Top 25 national class).

Bringing in two jukes and five frosh would have done the following: 1) balanced out the roster and 2) give the program a little momentum in the early years.

I'm not saying two jucos would have pushed SMU from 10-20 to the NIT or NCAAs but a handful more wins means a .500 type of season and show a little progress. Remember, Doh had some credibility when he first came on board but that is completely shot now.

The program wasn't in great shape when he took it on but it has gotten worse since he has been on the Hilltop. And my personal opinion is that this isn't just a bottoming out then bounce back up. It is sinking.

SMU is staring at a 9-21, 3-13 type of record. Regression every single year of his tenure. Not what I think most SMU fans were expecting after three seasons, even the most realistic ones.

[papawasamustang]

Doh will be back next season and probably make it to year five.

Bottom line, though, is that the program is a mess. Doh is not a good game day coach, has missed on the majority of kids he has brought into the program and made a HUGE mistake not bringing in two JUCOs (a post and a wing) in his first full class (the seven-man freshman disaster that looks like it might have 1.5 decent players in it and that many on this board were trying to trumpet as a Top 25 national class).

Bringing in two jukes and five frosh would have done the following: 1) balanced out the roster and 2) give the program a little momentum in the early years.

I'm not saying two jucos would have pushed SMU from 10-20 to the NIT or NCAAs but a handful more wins means a .500 type of season and show a little progress. Remember, Doh had some credibility when he first came on board but that is completely shot now.

The program wasn't in great shape when he took it on but it has gotten worse since he has been on the Hilltop. And my personal opinion is that this isn't just a bottoming out then bounce back up. It is sinking.

SMU is staring at a 9-21, 3-13 type of record. Regression every single year of his tenure. Not what I think most SMU fans were expecting after three seasons, even the most realistic ones.

I'm very realistic. I think that's why it only makes sense that if there is no huge turnaround than lets stop wasting everyones time & the Doh era needs to come to an end. Lets face the facts, like you mentioned, the program is only getting worse under Doh.

BTW, I agree with everyone of your points.

[Jumpshooter]

Doh will be back next season and probably make it to year five.

Bottom line, though, is that the program is a mess. Doh is not a good game day coach, has missed on the majority of kids he has brought into the program and made a HUGE mistake not bringing in two JUCOs (a post and a wing) in his first full class (the seven-man freshman disaster that looks like it might have 1.5 decent players in it and that many on this board were trying to trumpet as a Top 25 national class).

Bringing in two jukes and five frosh would have done the following: 1) balanced out the roster and 2) give the program a little momentum in the early years.

I'm not saying two jucos would have pushed SMU from 10-20 to the NIT or NCAAs but a handful more wins means a .500 type of season and show a little progress. Remember, Doh had some credibility when he first came on board but that is completely shot now.

The program wasn't in great shape when he took it on but it has gotten worse since he has been on the Hilltop. And my personal opinion is that this isn't just a bottoming out then bounce back up. It is sinking.

SMU is staring at a 9-21, 3-13 type of record. Regression every single year of his tenure. Not what I think most SMU fans were expecting after three seasons, even the most realistic ones.

I'm very realistic. I think that's why it only makes sense that if there is no huge turnaround than lets stop wasting everyones time & the Doh era needs to come to an end.

BTW, I agree with everyone of your points.

I think he has made a ton of mistakes in trying to get this thing going. I'd give him year four but without significant improvement, cut bait after that.

I get the feeling that SMU is going to do everything possible to see that he succeeds and that he will get year five as well, regardless of how the 09-10 season plays out.

[PonyDoh]

papa, how many schools can you name that fire in year 3, w/only 2 true recruiting classes under the coaches belt? Also, we're in a recession, and the program is probably operating at a loss. I don't know what Doh's buy out is, but why would you bite that off, when you can just kick him to the curb in a year or so? The program is a mess and the product stinks, but business is business

[papawasamustang]

http://www.al.com/sports/press-register ... xml&coll=3

That didn't take long. With the resignation of Gottfried @ Alabama on monday Anthony Grants name is already being thrown around with some other intresting names. But don't worry, Doh's name isn't on the list of possible replacements.