Memo to SMU men's hoops: Drop the act against the DISD

[gostangs]

Their kids didn't come because the DISD have no influence on their players. The influence is with the AAU "coaches" - which is why BB recruiting gets so slimy.

This topic has been done to death and is a yawner.

[The XtC]

1. We're a mid-major. We are not in a marquee conference for basketball.

That would make Memphis one f'ing good mid-major program.

Memphis is one F'ing good mid major. Even better than Gonzaga, or Tulsa was in their best years.

[The XtC]

Some of the talent we have brought in under Doherty is far more sought after than any we have brought in since maybe as far back as 1999 (again aside from Bhop).

Dia- offers from OU and Louisville
McCoy- offers from Kentucky, Virgina, Wash St. and others
Harp- offers from Stanford, Wake Forest, Texas Tech & others

If you are to look at scholarship offers of incoming players, those 3 guys would be ranked as the #2, 3, and 4 SMU signees over the last decade. None of them from Dallas (although you can argue that Harp played AAU in Dallas). If you want to wonder why two of those guys have not met expectations, i understand. But to point at a lack of recruiting from "inside out" as the reason we stink is flawed in my opinion.

McCoy didnt get an offer from Virginia. Kentucky did bring him in for a visit, but I dont think they offered, either.

[The XtC]

GSP,

I am not familiar at all with TCU's roster or recruiting, although it does appear that Christian is doing a great job there so far. Are either of these kids doing anything there? Were either a "get" for TCU when they signed them?

They had 18 points and 10 rebounds between them the night TCU rolled over SMU. Is that anything? Questionable, I guess. They both play consistent minutes every game, Moss started 5 games and averages 9.5 points, 2.5 assists per game. Whether Moss was considered a "get" depends on what you mean. He was in the Rivals top-100 his junior year, if that means anything. I saw both Moss and Butler play in high school, and I considered them both to be very good pickups for the Frogs. They can play.

[EastStang]

We're still in a mid-major conference. Why? We might, might get a nationally televised CSTV game or an ESPNU game. Baylor, Wake Forest, St. John's, Seton Hall, DePaul, Marquette, South Carolina will get at least one nationally televised game on CBS or ABC, or ESPN, plus they are in conferences with regional network contracts, like Raycom, Jefferson Pilot, or Fox regionals. That's the difference. Memphis will get an away game on CBS, but that's because they went to the Final Four last year. I get to see freaking Georgetown almost for every game. I get to see Maryland for almost every game. I get to see, UNC, Duke, Wake for almost every game. So, if you're a guy who has an offer from Miami, an Offer from DePaul, and Offer from Baylor and an Offer from SMU and you want to know that you'll be on TV all the time with chances for your highlights to be on the Top 10 every night which team is last on your list. Nuff said.

[papawasamustang]

papa, how many schools can you name that fire in year 3, w/only 2 true recruiting classes under the coaches belt? Also, we're in a recession, and the program is probably operating at a loss. I don't know what Doh's buy out is, but why would you bite that off, when you can just kick him to the curb in a year or so? The program is a mess and the product stinks, but business is business

As far as the recession goes, I'm sure the AD is looking @ ways to reduce costs. Trimming some of Doh's scatter shooting all over the country recruiting budget forcing him to concentrate locally/state in our own backyard might not be a bad thing. Also, it could help create an identity for the program that they desperately need. Build a winning program with local/state talent. I'm not saying cut the national scene off totally but I'm saying there should be some accountability showing that this staff is focused & using the majority of their resources locally.

Gillispie's 2004 pledge to recruit Texas — home of three of the nation's nine largest cities — in hunting down talent has paid big dividends for the Aggies, who are vying for their first Big 12 title.

"It's very difficult to go outside your state," Gillispie said. "You've got to become nationally prominent year after year to beat someone on their home players. You have to try and stay as close to your campus as possible.

"We would all be making a big mistake if we didn't start close to home."

I'm sure that Rhonda doesn't have anything near the recruiting budget Doh has & they are successful with 12 Texas, 1 Oklahoma & 1 Kansas player.

Again, it all comes down to W's. Until we get the right coach none of this matters. Gillispie gets it. Too bad Doh doesn't.

Just as a side not, I saw where Christopher Clarke, one of Doh's recruits last year who is playing a Pensacola JC is averaging 3 points per game.

[MustangIcon]

Papa, please post the Gillespie quote again. I can't find the other 3 times you posted it in this thread.

[papawasamustang]

Papa, please post the Gillespie quote again. I can't find the other 3 times you posted it in this thread.

Gillispie's 2004 pledge to recruit Texas — home of three of the nation's nine largest cities — in hunting down talent has paid big dividends for the Aggies, who are vying for their first Big 12 title.

"It's very difficult to go outside your state," Gillispie said. "You've got to become nationally prominent year after year to beat someone on their home players. You have to try and stay as close to your campus as possible.

"We would all be making a big mistake if we didn't start close to home."

Got it?

[MustangIcon]

McCoy didnt get an offer from Virginia. Kentucky did bring him in for a visit, but I dont think they offered, either.

I've read in a bunch of places that he did have offers from both and for what its worth Rivals has him listed with offers from both plus Wash St. and Pepperdine (who he originally committed too). Also, after signing or committing to us I recall someone here posting a link to the Kentucky fanboard possibly. From what I remember there, their fans sure thought they offered.

They had 18 points and 10 rebounds between them the night TCU rolled over SMU. Is that anything? Questionable, I guess. They both play consistent minutes every game, Moss started 5 games and averages 9.5 points, 2.5 assists per game. Whether Moss was considered a "get" depends on what you mean. He was in the Rivals top-100 his junior year, if that means anything. I saw both Moss and Butler play in high school, and I considered them both to be very good pickups for the Frogs. They can play.

Sound like quality pickups to me.

MustangIcon wrote:
Harp- offers from Stanford, Wake Forest, Texas Tech & others .


I don't believe Harp got offers from any of those schools, although he did get one from Northwestern.

I think he was hoping for an offer from Stanford.

http://smu.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp? ... _key=36181

Rivals lists him for offers from all the schools mentioned above and then some (ASU, TCU, Iowa St.). I guess it is possible that they are incorrect on some of the offers. I know he was a top 15 rated player in the state by Texas Hoops. In the end, my point was to say he was a highly recruited/sought after prospect. More so than nearly all of the talent we have brought in over the past decade. True that he has done next to nothing here (which may mean he was poorly evaluated by a lot of people or our current staff has not developed him well) but coming out of high school he was one of the most highly regarded recruits SMU has had over the past 10 years.

[papawasamustang]

We don't know how much time & effort Harp spent in the gym over the summer & how committed he is to the game but it appears we have a combination of a player that doesn't have any confidence anymore & a coaching staff that has a terrible track record of player development while @ SMU.

Maybe Harp has found the girl of his dweams & has turn into a sucker for luv instead of a hoopster. Unlike many, I did see some good things in Harp's game last year.

[jtstang]

1. We're a mid-major. We are not in a marquee conference for basketball.

That would make Memphis one f'ing good mid-major program.

Memphis is one F'ing good mid major. Even better than Gonzaga, or Tulsa was in their best years.

Three good examples of why I think the "mid-major" designation is fairly meaningless when discussing NCAA hoops. There are perennially good programs, and the rest.

[MustangIcon]

We don't know how much time & effort Harp spent in the gym over the summer & how committed he is to the game but it appears we have a combination of a player that doesn't have any confidence & a coaching staff, while @ SMU that has a terrible track record of player development.

Maybe Harp has found the girl of his dweams & has turn into a sucker for luv instead of a hoopster. Unlike many, I did see some good things in Harp's game last year.

I still see good things in Harp's game (defense, rebounding, effort, and flashes of being a good passer). He has certainly lost confidence in his ability to shoot, which was his #1 attribute coming to SMU.

The Rack commented on the board that the coaching staff changed up Ryan's form and that he basically lost all confidence in his shot as a result. Remember this is a kid that hit over 50% of 3s as a soph and above 40% as a junior and senior in highschool. Talking with former players that played pickup with him in the summer they told me the kid can flat out shoot it. Lacking that aspect from his game has really killed Harp on the offensive end.

Not sure if I can condemn the coaches for their terrible developement of players though. Very upset with the lack of steps made by Dia, Harp, Malone in year 2 at SMU. But, how can I overlook how much better Ike, Killen, Rack were under Doherty than previously? Ike became an absolute force his Senior year, when previously he looked like a spare. Rack became a go-to guy that Doh would run plays for out of time-outs for the last shot of the game. Killen went from hapless to a stud. Also, Bamba's offensive game really developed in his time at SMU. I cannot knock them for current player development without tipping my cap to some impressive accomplishments from the past few seasons.

[MustangIcon]

Something I just ran accross that interested me. A couple Dallas players SMU offered in the top 20 players rated by Texas Hoops for the 2008 class.

London Giles- Kimball HS
2 star #18 player in Texas
Offers from Nevada and SMU- chose Nevada
I want to say he committed somewhere fairly big-time then had his offer pulled. Maybe Arizona or Arizona St.
http://texashoops.rivals.com/viewprospe ... 38&Sport=2

Zach Williams- Skyline HS
2 star #16 player in Texas
Offers from SFA, Albany, SMU, and SHSU- chose SFA
http://texashoops.rivals.com/viewprospe ... 33&Sport=2

[PonyDoh]

Papa, you ever going to answer my question about what the model is for SMU hoops, taking into consideration it's NOT a huge state university, so your Gillespie quote need not apply. What other small WHITE private universities, w/actual academics and limited bunk degrees, w/quality facilities are we emulating? What's their approach to recruiting?

You keep using Gillespie's quote and it makes you seem disconnected from the reality of what type of school/program we are, and are trying to become. I'd be much more interested if you were quoting Dan Monson, Mark Few or any coach that's built a national power at a small private. A few apples to apples comparisons would be nice. You don't recruit to SMU like you would to A&M, that simple

Speaking of your hero, Billy Clyde, think he cares more about recruiting Kentucky or recruiting nationally.

[papawasamustang]

Papa, you ever going to answer my question about what the model is for SMU hoops, taking into consideration it's NOT a huge state university, so your Gillespie quote need not apply. What other small WHITE private universities, w/actual academics and limited bunk degrees, w/quality facilities are we emulating? What's their approach to recruiting?

You keep using Gillespie's quote and it makes you seem disconnected from the reality of what type of school/program we are, and are trying to become. I'd be much more interested if you were quoting Dan Monson, Mark Few or any coach that's built a national power at a small private. A few apples to apples comparisons would be nice. You don't recruit to SMU like you would to A&M, that simple

Speaking of your hero, Billy Clyde, think he cares more about recruiting Kentucky or recruiting nationally.

Gillespie is not my hero. I try to point out things that make since for SMU & building a base in Texas is a must. Gillespie gets it.
While establishing his program @ A&M he saw how important it was to get established locally. Same thing needed to be done here & still needs to be done here.
Kentucky is established & can recruit anywhere for their SUCCESSFUL program. If SMU can get to that level obviously we all know that you attract recruits from all over.
The post over on the recruiting forum talking about LA Tech HC Dooley concentrating his recruiting in a 5 hr radius from Ruston is the same thing I'm trying to point out. Dooley gets it.
While Doh is flying all over the country landing avg recruits, his time could be better spent IMO making DFW & Texas his # 1 priority.
This program has no identity & this would certainly help create one.
Becoming a top 25 team with homegrown/Texas talent.
You always have a few exceptions but I really like the direction the women's team has taken using their limited resources.

In addition to the coaching situation, the other major mistake has been made in the scheduling. The Gonzaga floor plan of a few years ago taking on alot of the big boys on the road getting the payday works imo.
I would much rather see us go up to Michigan State & lose by 20 than to
lose to Upstate, Centenary, Ark PB @ home. You improve by playing better players/team, u also get exposure to big time atmosphere & in the long run its pays off for you in conference play. Then you start knocking off the big boys every once in a while, your confidence grows & there u go. The other key is balancing the schedule were you don't have 2 games in 22 days or something like what we had this year.

The bottom line still is that we need a HC that puts W's on the board.
These are just a few of my thoughts on what could be done to change things up because what ever you call that going on over @ Crum & Moody right now ain't workin.