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Sad State

Postby Arkpony » Sun Jan 11, 2004 10:33 am

It is a sad state of affairs at my old alma mater. I was there during the Krebs era..nuff said. We now have a consistently below par basketball program and a woeful football program. Will it ever improve? What is amazing to me is how we, as supporters of SMU, remain hopeful. I am slowly starting to agree with Stallion: The fault lies in an adminstration that is not willing to go all out to achive success. I do NOT mean bending rules or cheating, but putting us completely on a level playing field with all other schools AND paying, and getting, coaches in here that can do the job. Till then, I fear a continueing stagnation on the football and basketbal programs. I am tired of it.
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Re: Sad State

Postby OldPony » Sun Jan 11, 2004 11:11 am

ArkPony- Gee, your even older than OP. First, you were there when SMU had the best basketball the school ever had. The only trip to the final 4. The 50 & 60's were really the only time SMU has been consistently good in BB. Cheatin' Dave had some good teams but we don't want to go there. Dement has had average teams. We can't seem to break above average though.
FB is a different story. We have nearly always been at least average in FB until the DP. Stallion is right about most of what he says re the recruiting restrictions. He doesn't think coaching matters too much though. I believe they both matter a lot. Bennett seems to be doing better recruiting but he hasn't shown any ability to coach. We were able to recruit better in the old days though because we were playing UT, A&M, ARK, TT, Baylor etc. Now the only teams we compete against from the old days are Rice and TCU with an occasional TT or Baylor. The teams we used to compete against are the draws in Dallas. No one cares if we beat SJSU or Boise St. even if BSU could have beaten most of the Big 12 schools.
The admin let our programs decline so far that we have lost what small fan base we had and the SMU students of today just flat don't care enough to go to a game unless they expect to win. Maybe it's the rich kid syndrome of "If I don't get my way, I won't play". I don't know but they don't go. By the time the guys from the classes of the 50's and 60's die out, there won't be but a couple of hundred SMU fans left. This needs to be turned around quickly if it is ever to be. The Lamar Hunts and Jerry Fords of the world have contributed heavily to trying to rebuild but they evidently don't have the pull with the U to get sports related majors or education type majors that might be appealing to athletes. The admin seems to make rules to kill sports and Turner, Copeland and the big contirbutors don't have the ability to change things except very incrementally. In the meantime, SMU sports suffers and so does the reputation of the University. SMU is not a top 100 University but many seem to think and act like we are. They think that we alums want SMU to be like Harvard or Rice but most of us don't. We want a well rounded school which brings the diversity of a student body from all over the country and provides a full college experience which includes NCAA sports. The current student body dosen't think like we do either or they would support the teams better. There is no answer until the big donors cut off all money unless the admin cooperates. Most of the alums find that kind of threat to be beneath them and so we will go along like this forever. I found another school to back. My kids didn't want to go to SMU because they saw how few students went to ballgamnes and how poor school spirit was. I'm too far to go to SMU games so I now attend their college games. Being around fans is fun. SMU should try it sometime.
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Re: Sad State

Postby Stallion » Sun Jan 11, 2004 12:38 pm

to be clear I've said repeatedly that the reason that SMU has not been competitive in FB since the DP is because SMU has not played on an even playing field with their natural and traditional rivals. The words "Coaching doesn't matter" have never come out of my mouth(or keyboard). There is a distinction there that apparently many can't grasp. Let's not get too depressed about the future-there have been significant change in the schools policies in 2000 and even this year with regard to JUCOs(as long as we are allowed to go after a significant slice of that pie) that will make us significantly more competitive by 2005-2006. The problem is it doesn't happen overnite-it takes 4-5 recruiting years after the changes to see the improvement that WILL result from such changes. Who knows there may be a day in the future when I get to analyze the performance of the coaching staff and conclude we ought to "Fire the [deleted]"

<small>[ 01-11-2004, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: Stallion ]</small>
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Re: Sad State

Postby couch 'em » Sun Jan 11, 2004 1:45 pm

Originally posted by OldPony:

The admin let our programs decline so far that we have lost what small fan base we had and the SMU students of today just flat don't care enough to go to a game unless they expect to win. Maybe it's the rich kid syndrome of "If I don't get my way, I won't play". I don't know but they don't go.
It isn't so much that, as they just don't care about SMU football. Nobody has grown up an SMU fan, (with a handful of exception) and for a large percentage of the student body, SMU was a backup school. You can see this by looking around campus. You see just as many UT hats and Aggie shirts as SMU garb. Only 'fans' would go to a game to watch a comically pathetic team get blown out by teams they have never heard of. SMU students would rather stay home and watch UT choke on TV.
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Re: Sad State

Postby OldPony » Sun Jan 11, 2004 1:56 pm

That's even more pathetic. I don't remeber anyone from our class saying that SMU had been their back up but that has been a long,long time ago. If SMU is just a back up, then maybe we should all just quit banging our heads on the wall. If Dallas wants a University, they can support it.
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Re: Sad State

Postby Diehard Pony » Sun Jan 11, 2004 3:38 pm

Couch'em,

With all due respect, SMU is hardly a backup to either of the schools you mentioned. Firstly, both state schools are virtually obiligated to accept any state resident, albeit it might be on scholastic probation (low SAT scores, etc) until if/or when they prove themselves in school.

Secondly, sone of SMU's schools within the University are ranked as high as the Top 20, with the business school prominent among them. Everytime BusinessWeek mag does their B-school reviews we make at least the Top 40. When the WSJ did their review in July (special section) SMU was rated #9.

<small>[ 01-11-2004, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: Diehard Pony ]</small>
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Re: Sad State

Postby OldPony » Sun Jan 11, 2004 3:47 pm

You are right about the B School. Is there any other school that is a top 50? Overall, SMU is usually rated as a second quartile school and about the same academically as the University of Kansas. See US News or Princeton rankings. Yet there are many who see SMU as an academic elite and try to explain away our poor athletics that way. We are a good regional school. We need athletics to improve to help SMU improve. SMU (other than the B school) is no more highly thought of today than it was 30 years ago. Our applicant pool will shrink without decent sports.
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Re: Sad State

Postby EastStang » Mon Jan 12, 2004 10:50 am

I believe that I've heard that the School of Fine Arts is certainly up there especially in Journalism, Drama, Sacred Music, and Studio Art.
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Re: Sad State

Postby ponyte » Mon Jan 12, 2004 12:04 pm

Nobody seems to care what my degree is in, just that I have a SMU degree. People believe that SMU is a fine school that provides a great education.

If we want to have a topnotch school known for academics then we need to recruit nothing but Einstein type athletes and forget about our record. If we want to win, then we need to recruit athletes. Many athletes can get a degree at SMU without having Einstein like IQs.
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Re: Sad State

Postby couch 'em » Mon Jan 12, 2004 1:36 pm

no, no, no, you guy misunderstood me, I was making two seperate points. Having looked at my post,I was not clear. SMU is definantly not a backup to UT or A&M academically in most cases, but it is a backup to other schools. (well, in theory if you aren't in the top 10% automatic acceptance you COULD be rejected from UT and come here and pay full tuition, but that isn't my point) The point is, nobody comes here as a fan. Many students come here because they didn't get into Rice, or school X and thus have no real connection with SMU because they didn't really want to come here in the first place. Another group are the fans of other schools, often schools like UT. They are here for whatever reason, but still remain fans of those other teams, and just dont' care about SMU football. They are only here because of the academics, or because their father made them come here, or whatever. And this is true. Trust me, I'm a current student, I see it every day.

<small>[ 01-12-2004, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: couch 'em ]</small>
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Re: Sad State

Postby Stallion » Mon Jan 12, 2004 1:43 pm

a much higher percentage of state school fans grow up dreaming about being a Longhorn, Aggie or Raider than being a Mustang if only for the fact that a much higher percentage of SMU students are from out-of-state so they are never exposed to SMU athletics before they get here. Heck SMU's profile and success level is so low right now most of the in-state students haven't been exposed to SMU athletics.
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Re: Sad State

Postby couch 'em » Mon Jan 12, 2004 1:52 pm

This is very true. I grew up over near 35 and LBJ and I never once saw an advertisement, commercial, or any other spec of marketing to even suggest SMU was in Dallas. If not for the occasional joke about how horrible SMU football is or 'rich snob' comment, I would not have even known it exists.
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Re: Sad State

Postby Sam I Am » Mon Jan 12, 2004 3:11 pm

In the days of the pony express I was living in San Antonio and actually saw kids wearing SMU jerseys when they went to the mall thanks to mustang mania and a championsihp team. SMU had been through a drought in the 70's and had a FB attendance of about 7K for a Rice game in the Cotton Bowl one bad year. Low attendance is what prompted the state schools to push for changes in the revenue sharing from home games to a plan where the home school kept all of the receipts. Finally this wasn't enough either and the exodus began from the SWC. Ticket selling determines who goes to bowl games, and in our case whether we have a big time sports program in the years to come. Winning is crucial if we are to survive. :unsure:
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Re: Sad State

Postby OldPony » Mon Jan 12, 2004 3:17 pm

So they didn't grow up as SMU fans. I grew up out of state but when I went to SMU, I became an SMU fan. We won 1 game my freshman year but I attended all of them as did most every fraternity member at SMU. I was also at every game for the next 3 years. They were at the CB then too which was more of a pain. We can make excuses for the student apathy but excuses are like a$$h----......
Most in Texas have a inflated idea about SMU academically also. Ask someone from NY or Philly or SF- They haven't even heard of SMU. If they have it is because we got the death penalty and they know nothing about SMU academically. If they look at national rankings they see nothing but the B-School which is distinguished.
I'm not saying that being a regional school is bad. I'm saying that we shoudln't think we are Duke or Stanford or Rice and use the excuse that we are above most all schools academically and that to allow some borderline entries will hurt our reputation. That is total BS. We are not considered a very selective school. If we had better athletics though more people would want to come and we might have the ability to be selective in the future. Good athletics is important to student recruitment.
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Re: Sad State

Postby DiamondM » Mon Jan 12, 2004 3:45 pm

We are a selective school -- self selective. Not everyone is Einstein, but chances are if you apply to SMU and end up going here and paying full tuition, you probably came from a high school that had the resources, teachers, etc. to give you the academic tools to succeed on the SAT and with grades. Someone without at least a hope of an acedemic or other type of scholarship is not even putting in an application here because of the sticker price.

SMU is not "selective" in the sense you mean (they accept the vast percentage of applications they receive) for one reason: the number of applications SMU receives is much less than places like Rice (because of price or the stereotype of SMU) or Duke and Stanford (because of national reputation).

What many of the faculty still fail to understand is that in order to increase the number of applications, thus enabling SMU to become "selective" in the traditional sense, it needs the national publicity that successful college athletics can bring. You think Notre Dame gets tons of national interest and applications because of their great academic reputation? The Ivies are about the only institutions that keep application numbers up based on academics alone. The more applications you get, the more you can afford to be selective. And the more your name is in the national conversation, the more applications you get.
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