USC/SMU Penalty Comparison

[Topper]

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs ... enalty.php

...sigh...

[mr. pony]

Since SMU's DP, over 20 schools that have met the requirements for receiving the punishment have skated.
Add USC to that list.

It's way overdue, but SMU should formally and publicly call on the NCAA to administer the DP each and every time its criteria are met. And hold a press conference, asking the NCAA to do its job,
pointing out in monentary terms what the DP cost SMU and that continuing to leave SMU as the only school to have received the DP casts the school in an unfair light to this day.

If 20+ schools had been given the DP since SMU, the stigma on SMU would be a fraction of what it is.

[Topper]

In the 70s a bunch of UT players were working for the House of Representatives printing shop. Problem? House had no printing shop.

In the 80s and 90s, UT players were selling tickets to alums at inflated prices. No NCAA action. DeLoss Dodds given performance based pay raise for his work with NCAA.

This sort of thing is even worse when it happens at UT considering public funds and property are involved. At least SMU wasnt stealing from the taxpayers.

[ponyscott]

In the 70s a bunch of UT players were working for the House of Representatives printing shop. Problem? House had no printing shop.

In the 80s and 90s, UT players were selling tickets to alums at inflated prices. No NCAA action. DeLoss Dodds given performance based pay raise for his work with NCAA.

This sort of thing is even worse when it happens at UT considering public funds and property are involved. At least SMU wasnt stealing from the taxpayers.

Good points as I hadn't thought of the public funds part of it for some reason.

[Dwan]

What this article fails to point out and quite frankly, what most posters and SMU fans and Alumni still fail to understand is the following: It was is the death penalty that killed SMU Football. It was the Death Penalty coupled with the policies that SMU put on itself after the Death Penalty that killed SMU football. Everybody loves to blame the NCAA and the Death Penalty for our woes, but that blame is shared with Kenneth Pye and the university leadership in the late 80s to late 90s who were not committed to having a division one football team. Quite frankly the sanctions we put on ourselves were just as bad if not worse than the NCAA's. If coming back from the DP, the school and the athletic department had the policies that are in place now, the football program would have not had a 20 year bowl drought and would have been competitive much sooner.

It would be interesting to see another school get the Death Penalty in football because it would probably take a USC or Alabama less than 10 years to be back.

[Topper]

What this article fails to point out and quite frankly, what most posters and SMU fans and Alumni still fail to understand is the following: It was is the death penalty that killed SMU Football. It was the Death Penalty coupled with the policies that SMU put on itself after the Death Penalty that killed SMU football. Everybody loves to blame the NCAA and the Death Penalty for our woes, but that blame is shared with Kenneth Pye and the university leadership in the late 80s to late 90s who were not committed to having a division one football team. Quite frankly the sanctions we put on ourselves were just as bad if not worse than the NCAA's. If coming back from the DP, the school and the athletic department had the policies that are in place now, the football program would have not had a 20 year bowl drought and would have been competitive much sooner.

It would be interesting to see another school get the Death Penalty in football because it would probably take a USC or Alabama less than 10 years to be back.

I think most people who post here are well aware of the issues surrounding the Pye years and the internal politics that played out during that time. You may be missing the point that the "death penalty" allowed the fanatically anti-big time sports clique that existed at that time to take over the University to an extent that would not have been possible had we been treated similarly to programs since.

[Dwan]

Right. That is my point. That it was not just the death penalty, but the culture that was the SMU administration at the time. I dont think you would find a culture like that at USC, Alabama, Florida, etc.

[mr. pony]

You would have found that culture at ANY school that was the FIRST to receive the DP.

SMU did not behave particularly odd. We were just the FIRST. ANY major university so embarrassed would have reacted similarly, I believe, if not MORE extreme. Faculty dopes/sports naysayers are the same everywhere.

I just don't buy blaming SMU for its reaction. Never will.
I blame those involved in the cheating, obviously, but the main player in our demise was THE FRICKIN' NCAA (including the hopefully soon unemployed Dan Beebe) for using a never before imposed penalty - and then using it just ONCE.

[Dwan]

Agree to disagree. I dont think you would see any other school, especially a big state school, hamstring themselves the way we did. SMU basically gave up athletics and tried to brand itself the as an academic powerhouse. I'm not saying that they did not do anything wrong or that the DP was not deserved, I just think we way we handcuffed ourselves made it much worse than it should have been.

[Topper]

Agree to disagree. I dont think you would see any other school, especially a big state school, hamstring themselves the way we did. SMU basically gave up athletics and tried to brand itself the as an academic powerhouse. I'm not saying that they did not do anything wrong or that the DP was not deserved, I just think we way we handcuffed ourselves made it much worse than it should have been.

The death penalty wasn't deserved because there were plenty of other programs worse than ours beforre and since then that did not receive the death penalty. There was conduct reported in the papers at UT and A & M, and at Baylor that made us look like amateurs. If they didnt deserve it then we didnt either.

[Dwan]

We did not get the death penalty for what we did. We got the death penalty for repeatedly ignoring the warnings and sanctions by the NCAA. Our transgressions were no worse than anybody else, in fact, they were probably tame compared to UT and A&M...but the NCAA kept on telling us to clean it up and we kept on doing it. Telling the NCAA to F-off is what got us the DP.

[Stallion]

Listening to some of you rationalizing SMU's incredibly corrupt program-I really wonder if we've seen our last serious NCAA violation. Do us all a favor and stay away from the athletic program

[stc9]

It is doubtful that any school will ever receive the death penalty again, especially a private school. Every University needs alumni donations in order to keep their doors open. The SMU scandal embarrassed every single alum. Alumni donations almost completely stopped after receiving the DP. The School came close to closing its doors. I am no fan of Ken Pye, but his rules and restrictions on the athletic department were more about keeping the school open than anything else.

The NCAA saw what happened to SMU during the surrounding time period. Even though the NCAA is evil, expecially so for its utter lack of common sense, they are not stupid. The will never do that to a major revenue producer like Alabama or USC.

Keeping USC off TV will ruin the entire Pac-10 (until Texas joins). Without USC, the current Pac-10 is on par with the Big East (including Colorado).

[Topper]

Listening to some of you rationalizing SMU's incredibly corrupt program-I really wonder if we've seen our last serious NCAA violation. Do us all a favor and stay away from the athletic program

Stallion, this university allowed a bunch of hoodlums to hijack its integrity. No one here is saying that they acted properly. You seem unable to understand that doesnt mean that the NCAA treated us fairly. It is obvious that high powered programs that draw a lot of money (UT) that cheat worse then we ever did deserve the the same fate. But they didnt, and that is not a fair way to run a casino.
Unfortunately, it also hasnt meant that the university is too high minded to take millions of dollars from some of the same people who acted so reprehinsibly (Governor Clements). Why don't you go on a crusade to make the school give them their money back?

[jtstang]

Was Arnold Schwarzenegger quoted as having a "payroll to keep" for USC? If so, I say give 'em the death penalty. Involvement of the governor is key.