What do SMU Fans think of TCU?

[surething]

[ SMU is heck and gone the better school academic terms, but the two schools are geographically close, private, about the same size, even though they seemed to represent two very different values sets of Dallas and Fort Worth.


latest US News has SMU ranked 78 and TCU 98 with TCU having a lower acceptance rate.

[jtstang]

You guys are acting like the move to the MWC wouldn't have happened if if (for example) UTEP had originally been added instead of SMU. The move still would have happened. The move is for added exposure and increased revenues, which TCU believes will happen in the MWC. The revenue increase is already proving to be true with the CSTV deal. The exposure is a calculated risk that will take a while to find out about.

The other reason for leaving isn't so much about CUSA in '05, as CUSA in just a few more years down the road. Its no secret that the majority of the Eastern schools lobbied to get into the Big East, and that will continue even after the new CUSA is formed. TCU couldn't risk being left in a revamped SWC for many reasons.

You can agree with the move or not, but the reasons for the move were much more numerous than simply not wanting to be in a conference with SMU. If that was the case, we wouldn't continue playing SMU.

Isn't it funny the way a bunch of these guys figure the powers that be at TCU hold a weekly meeting on "how we can next screw SMU." The sheer paranoia of some SMU fans when it comes to TCU cracks me up. It must come from reading too many TCU fan sites and believeing those posters are on teh board of trustees or something.

I've hated TCU in rivalry terms for a long time, but I do not begrudge them taking what they feel is a better opportunity. I do not think it will work out like they want, but more power to them. As long as we get a chance each year to play them , I'll be content.

[SmooPower]

Without dipping into name-calling, etc., it must be admitted that TCU is at a level to which many PonyFans would like to see SMU ascend. TCU has had a winning record in recent years, and has been to several bowl games. For that, the Frogs should be commended.

I'd personally like to see us ascend to the LSU/OU/USC/Miami/Ohio State/etc. level.

[EastStang]

TCU fans wear blue jeans. SMU fans wear designer jeans. TCU fans drink Shiner. SMU fans drink Maker's Mark. TCU fans like purple. SMU fans like All-American colors. TCU fans believe they have little weenies, and think SMU has a Big One. SMU knows what they have. TCU has adequate academics. SMU has great academics. TCU women are okay. SMU women are incredible. TCU fans like to party but are amateurs. SMU fans are pros. TCU fans think Saturday afternoons on CSTV will be the financial great savior. SMU fans know that playing on Saturdays opposite, ND, SEC, Big XII, ACC, Big X, PAC 10 and BE is a way to go to oblivion. TCU fans believe that spending gobs of money on travel will make them a bigger name. SMU fans say, been there done that. SMU fans know that the BCS is a small club that will not get appreciably larger. TCU fans want to believe that the next invitation will be theirs. TCU fans believe that their recent run will be permanent. SMU fans know that everything is cyclical and that we will be back. We beat TCU for 20 straight years. I know they will never hang 20 years on us.

[Hoop Fan]

[
Isn't it funny the way a bunch of these guys figure the powers that be at TCU hold a weekly meeting on "how we can next screw SMU." The sheer paranoia of some SMU fans when it comes to TCU cracks me up. It must come from reading too many TCU fan sites and believeing those posters are on teh board of trustees or something.

I've hated TCU in rivalry terms for a long time, but I do not begrudge them taking what they feel is a better opportunity. I do not think it will work out like they want, but more power to them. As long as we get a chance each year to play them , I'll be content.

In this case, I'd rather be a little paranoid than alot naive. And I dont begrudge them for going to the MWC either...at all. Hell, I predicted they would go there on this message board 6 months before it ever surfaced in the media. Nearly everyone on this board disagreed with me at the time, but it was good debate, some probably called me paranoid too. Look, it does sound ridiculous to paint the picture that the TCU powers have weekly how-to-screw-SMU meetings. Of course they dont, and SMU has done a good job of scewing itself. Still, it is not paranoia to realize we are in a battle with them for a limited number of good area recruits after UT and A&M get theirs, and a very limited amount of media attention. Its a battle for survival and we are fighting for the same resources with them. I'm not saying they are bad people or anything else for acting accordingly in their best interest to grab market share and limit SMUs, but dont fool yourself, they have been and will continue to do so.

[OldPony]

TCU is in Cowtown. No comparison in academics or home town. Yes, their sports are better now but that is short range. The Ponies will return to dominate them again.

[jtstang]

Look, it does sound ridiculous to paint the picture that the TCU powers have weekly how-to-screw-SMU meetings. Of course they dont, and SMU has done a good job of scewing itself. Still, it is not paranoia to realize we are in a battle with them for a limited number of good area recruits after UT and A&M get theirs, and a very limited amount of media attention. Its a battle for survival and we are fighting for the same resources with them. I'm not saying they are bad people or anything else for acting accordingly in their best interest to grab market share and limit SMUs, but dont fool yourself, they have been and will continue to do so.

Your point about SMU screwing itself is well taken--which is another reason (and the main one) TCU doesn't have to. But what you say about battling for recruits, local exposure, etc., has been the same story for the past 80 years. It's nothing new, and of course they will continue that struggle as will we. My post was really directed to those folks who think everything TCU does to improve its lot in life comes with an ulterior motive to stick it to SMU. As an example, my recollection is there is no shortage of people on this board, and I think Bennett even said something in the press once to this effect, who believe that TCU decision to go to MWC was driven solely (or at least primarily) by the fact that SMU was invited to conference USA. That kind of ridiculous paraniod drivel should be reserved for that delusional UNT poster who comes here occasionally. You all know the guy--he thinks the reason UNT is not in CUSA is because Turner campaigned for LaTech over UNT.

[Hoop Fan]

But what you say about battling for recruits, local exposure, etc., has been the same story for the past 80 years. It's nothing new, and of course they will continue that struggle as will we.

But thats the crux really, its really not the same environment as its been for the past 80 years. Not at all. When the SWC broke up, TCU realized immediately it was a dog eat dog world and that they would rather eat than be eaten. SMU acted like nothing had changed and that it could go on with business as usual for the most part. New stadium was the exception.

[LA_Mustang]

As many have said, TCU is everything Ft Worth (conservative, religious, steak and potatoes, weekends drinking beer, stockyards, friendly) and SMU is everything Dallas (a little arrogant, diverse, work hard, play hard, weekends drinking red bull/vodka, Lower Greenville).

BTW, I am very impressed by the way SMU has become a much more diverse student body over the past few years. As far as I’m concerned, that makes for a much better learning environment. We are way ahead of TCU in that regard.

[Greenwich Pony]

SMU does garner a great deal more respect from the academic and business communities than TCU does, regardless of US News & acceptance rates (more popular is not always an indication of quality). I'm not saying TCU is a bad school; but it just isn't where SMU is in academics. SMU isn't a Harvard or a Yale either. It's just a difference between the schools. It is part of the difference in values as well; LA Mustang expressed it quite well.

And I think that TCU has been the more pragmatic program when it comes to athletics; I think they have in fact blundered recently (nobody's perfect) with MWC, but I do think that they have done a good job remaining competitive with football, and by and large have run a clean program in doing so. At least they're making a serious effort.

I also think that if SMU wants to continue to compete at this level, we do need to get a grip. If Stanford, Duke, Vandy and other schools of higher academic reputation can be competitive and run clean programs (I know they're in BCS leagues, but our problem isn't so much the money...) and recruit some atheletes, SMU should be able to do the same and retain our academic integrity. It is a matter of oversight, and we should have no problem with academic oversight considering our faculty.

Just my two cents...

[GoRedGoBlue]

You guys are acting like the move to the MWC wouldn't have happened if if (for example) UTEP had originally been added instead of SMU. The move still would have happened. The move is for added exposure and increased revenues, which TCU believes will happen in the MWC. The revenue increase is already proving to be true with the CSTV deal. The exposure is a calculated risk that will take a while to find out about.

The other reason for leaving isn't so much about CUSA in '05, as CUSA in just a few more years down the road. Its no secret that the majority of the Eastern schools lobbied to get into the Big East, and that will continue even after the new CUSA is formed. TCU couldn't risk being left in a revamped SWC for many reasons.

You can agree with the move or not, but the reasons for the move were much more numerous than simply not wanting to be in a conference with SMU. If that was the case, we wouldn't continue playing SMU.

You 'anticipate' increased revenues, while ignoring the increased costs.

Yes, UL and Cincy wanted out, for BBALL purposes. But, with Marshall coming in, and the rise of Memphis in both FB and BB, plus now look at UHou's potential, TCU made the wrong choice.

The MAIN argument was "WE NEED TO BE IN A BCS CONFERENCE, OR ONE THAT IS CLOSER TO IT"

Well, the bottom line is this:

1) the highest ranked non-BCS teams have come from the WAC, not the MWC (excluding TCU).
2) the losses that kept TCU out of BCS contention in 4 of the past 5 years have been CONFERENCE losses.
3) ipso facto, your argument only holds water if you had been UNDEFEATED and STILL were denied BCS admission.

Now look at you. Your in a limited TV contract, no weekday games (the only way to get national exposure from non-BCS conferences) and your nearest road game is 1100 miles away.

Do you seriously think you can compete in the MWC at those altitudes, and after all that extended travel, week after week?

Let's be serious now.

It was a bad, knee-jerk, sounds good on paper, decision that you will regret.

[GoRedGoBlue]

As many have said, TCU is everything Ft Worth (conservative, religious, steak and potatoes, weekends drinking beer, stockyards, friendly) and SMU is everything Dallas (a little arrogant, diverse, work hard, play hard, weekends drinking red bull/vodka, Lower Greenville).

BTW, I am very impressed by the way SMU has become a much more diverse student body over the past few years. As far as I’m concerned, that makes for a much better learning environment. We are way ahead of TCU in that regard.

Diversity is not a constitutional right, nor does it mean you learn more.

[Stallion]

I don't think TCU tries to intentionally screw SMU. Rather, as I have worried about many times on this board even before TCU chose the MWC they don't want to be left in a situation in the changing sands of college football and conference realignment where they are left in Ken Pye's Magnolia Ivy League among schools which have not shown they are committed to competing at the highest levels of Division 1A Football. Now I know that concept gives guys like Cheesesteak and WaterPony a warm fuzzy feel about the academic integrity of a academic institution of higher learning but such a result will likely be the death knell for any football program stuck in a conference from among Rice, SMU, TCU, Tulsa, Tulane. In such a scenario I hate to tell you boys but TCU Football will survive-SMU Football will not because there will be no TV contract and no bowls. SMU would likely attempt to retreat to College Basketball. TCU is simply betting that is where this is all heading and quite frankly if those schools don't change their policies that is almost assuredly where we are heading.

[Water Pony]

Stallion, greetings from Clueless.

Stanford, Notre Dame, USC, Miami, etc. have pretty good academics and sports. Even Northwestern, who took TCU to 2OTs, fields competitive teams on occasion.

So, you are right as always. But, they along with Baylor, Duke, Wake Forest, Vanderbilt, Boston College, Baylor, etc. have a "get out of jail free" card called BCS membership. Not bad work if you can get it.

My respect for TCU and BYU, who don't have that luxury, is high but with limited revenue, fan/alumni bases and the budget demands of maintaining Division 1A programs it is a challenge for us and our non-BCS, private school peer group.

After the DP the easy thing for us would have been to fold the Div. 1A commitment. But, we didn't. Mistakes were made, time was lost, tradition eroded and interference from "well intented?" academics made a tough problem worse.

I prefer two things.

One, look forward not back because what happened is history. We have to write a new one starting with the new stadium, new admission flexibility, hiring Phil, recruiting competitively, etc.

Two, accept that doing it right is NOT the problem. It is NOT inconsistent with rebuilding a winning tradition in FB. To do one (athletics) at the expense of the other (academic integrity) is not a price we should pay.

Your point is we could do more. Yes. Specifics? Beyond getting ready for Texas Tech, we have team of mostly Freshman and Sophomores that Phil as assembled. I suggest we support them one game at time. After the season, we can compare notes.

You may be surprised on what we agree on. Don't assume my warm fuzzies are inconsistent with your winning formula.

[jtstang]

Diversity is not a constitutional right, nor does it mean you learn more.

Maybe you should keep your drivel focused on football, where you can say asinine things like TCU's closest road game is 1100 miles away when the distance to Ford is closer to 35 miles, and leave the Constitution out of the discussion. Clearly a little diversity might have helped you.