SMU Football Coaches...

[rich59]

I believe that Warbow is exactly right and I posted this opinion right after June Jones was hired including his record while at Hawaii against good teams. Another point is, to me, that I know of no other major college football teams using the Run & Shoot offense except possibly Hawaii which I think has gone more to a running game type offense. Anybody know of any other school in the R&S? If it is a viable scheme why are not more teams using it?

[The PonyGrad]

Wasn't NMSU running it before the last coaching change? When McD was there?

[Mexmustang]

Seems to me, June has already adjusted his game plan to include the run. For the past two years, he has had 1,000 yard rushers, which he never had before and Line is on track this season. I maybe wrong, but it appears that has put the 'run' back into the run and shoot. Maybe it is out of necessity, maybe a planned adjustment.

[RGV Pony]

Wasn't NMSU running it before the last coaching change? When McD was there?

that was more the Tech air raid offense...Mumme was the coach, who had a protege named Mike Leach

[goldenstang]

I believe that Warbow is exactly right and I posted this opinion right after June Jones was hired including his record while at Hawaii against good teams. Another point is, to me, that I know of no other major college football teams using the Run & Shoot offense except possibly Hawaii which I think has gone more to a running game type offense. Anybody know of any other school in the R&S? If it is a viable scheme why are not more teams using it?

Most schools and NFL teams use elements of the run n shoot.

[RGV Pony]

I believe that Warbow is exactly right and I posted this opinion right after June Jones was hired including his record while at Hawaii against good teams. Another point is, to me, that I know of no other major college football teams using the Run & Shoot offense except possibly Hawaii which I think has gone more to a running game type offense. Anybody know of any other school in the R&S? If it is a viable scheme why are not more teams using it?

Most schools and NFL teams use elements of the run n shoot.

agree w/ goldenstang there. Colts are a good example. I guess we'll see this week another example of how "it's complicated...takes years to learn" when they wheel Kerry Collins out there to take the snap from Saturday

[RSFan]

I believe that Warbow is exactly right and I posted this opinion right after June Jones was hired including his record while at Hawaii against good teams. Another point is, to me, that I know of no other major college football teams using the Run & Shoot offense except possibly Hawaii which I think has gone more to a running game type offense. Anybody know of any other school in the R&S? If it is a viable scheme why are not more teams using it?

Most schools and NFL teams use elements of the run n shoot.

Exactly, it is just not politically correct to identify with the R&S pass happy offense.

[Garret]

JJ's track record against these type of teams at Hawaii was horrible.

1999: 62-7 USC
2002: 58-31 Boise St.
2003: 61-32 USC,
2004: 69-3 Boise St, 70-14 Fresno St. 51-20 UTEP
2005: 63-17 USC, 41-24 Wisconsin, 46-14 La Tech, 42-14 MIchigan St.
2007: 41-10, Georgia

In the interest of completeness, I am trying to figure out how blatantly Warbow picked games to try to make his point. It is especially interesting that 2 games with Boise State were included and then the more recent results were not. Since 2004 games were shown for Fresno State and UTEP, it will be interesting to see what happened when Hawaii played both teams in 2003. I think that UTEP had left the WAC by 2005, so 2003 is the last data point for the UTEP/Fresno combo.

1999: 23-17 over Oregon State
2001: 38-34 win over #18 ranked Fresno State, 72-45 win over #8 ranked BYU
2002: 32-35 loss at BYU, 16-21 loss to Alabama, but 10 wins in the regular season
2003: 37-29 over Alabama, 55-28 win over Fresno State, 31-15 win over UTEP, 54-48 bowl win over Houston
2004: 49-41 win over Northwestern, 41-38 win over Michigan State
2005: 41-44 loss to Boise State (there is a reason why Warbow didn't include any Boise State games after 2004)
2006: 17-25 loss at Alabama, 34-41 loss at Boise State, 68-37 win over Fresno State, 42-35 win over Purdue, 32-35 loss to Oregon State, 41-34 bowl win over Arizona State
2007: 39-27 win over #17 Boise State, 35-28 win over Washington

Frankly, I wouldn't have bothered to post since I have a major work deadline tomorrow...but the blatant picking of games prompted me to look up further information. Warbow is correct that there have been times where JJ's teams were outclassed, like the Sugar Bowl and the Texas A&M game on Sunday. However, would running a conventional system gotten Hawaii to the Sugar Bowl or have made SMU win a season opener at College Station?

[smuuth]

What do QB's and head coaches have in common? They are overly scrutinized and lionized after victories and lambasted after losses and/or questionable calls or performances. When the head coach is the QB guru/mentor and a qb has an off game the scrutiny is heightened.Having said that it is a fine line between success and sorrow. Have you looked at the scores of the coaches' last season at Hawaii? A wonderful undefeated season till the bowl but so many close, high-scoring victories(some against below-average teams).Football is such a wonderful team sport that victory can hinge on the momenntum of an onside kick or a tipped pass or an untimely injury. Look at Utah State and Auburn....only two minutes to glory for the aggies and they blew it. I wonder how any qb,especially in a passing offense, can play with confidence knowing that an interception or two and he is back with the clipboard. Of course Dalton worked under that premise at TCU for four years and was never appreciated until his last year.

[sbsmith]

I believe that Warbow is exactly right and I posted this opinion right after June Jones was hired including his record while at Hawaii against good teams. Another point is, to me, that I know of no other major college football teams using the Run & Shoot offense except possibly Hawaii which I think has gone more to a running game type offense. Anybody know of any other school in the R&S? If it is a viable scheme why are not more teams using it?

Hawaii still throws it as much as they ever did. Last year their QB led the nation in passing yards.

[Warbow]

JJ's track record against these type of teams at Hawaii was horrible.

1999: 62-7 USC
2002: 58-31 Boise St.
2003: 61-32 USC,
2004: 69-3 Boise St, 70-14 Fresno St. 51-20 UTEP
2005: 63-17 USC, 41-24 Wisconsin, 46-14 La Tech, 42-14 MIchigan St.
2007: 41-10, Georgia

In the interest of completeness, I am trying to figure out how blatantly Warbow picked games to try to make his point. It is especially interesting that 2 games with Boise State were included and then the more recent results were not. Since 2004 games were shown for Fresno State and UTEP, it will be interesting to see what happened when Hawaii played both teams in 2003. I think that UTEP had left the WAC by 2005, so 2003 is the last data point for the UTEP/Fresno combo.

1999: 23-17 over Oregon State
2001: 38-34 win over #18 ranked Fresno State, 72-45 win over #8 ranked BYU
2002: 32-35 loss at BYU, 16-21 loss to Alabama, but 10 wins in the regular season
2003: 37-29 over Alabama, 55-28 win over Fresno State, 31-15 win over UTEP, 54-48 bowl win over Houston
2004: 49-41 win over Northwestern, 41-38 win over Michigan State
2005: 41-44 loss to Boise State (there is a reason why Warbow didn't include any Boise State games after 2004)
2006: 17-25 loss at Alabama, 34-41 loss at Boise State, 68-37 win over Fresno State, 42-35 win over Purdue, 32-35 loss to Oregon State, 41-34 bowl win over Arizona State
2007: 39-27 win over #17 Boise State, 35-28 win over Washington

Frankly, I wouldn't have bothered to post since I have a major work deadline tomorrow...but the blatant picking of games prompted me to look up further information. Warbow is correct that there have been times where JJ's teams were outclassed, like the Sugar Bowl and the Texas A&M game on Sunday. However, would running a conventional system gotten Hawaii to the Sugar Bowl or have made SMU win a season opener at College Station?

The point I was making was how the Run & Shoot offense took a toll on it's own defense. Playing against good power running schools with superior athletes, the Run & Shoot produced several blow-out losses. That's the nature of the beast.

The wins you pointed out were against teams that were a little over .500 or sub .500 teams with the exception of BYU in 2001 who came in undefeated. Funny thing about that game, their start running back Duce Staley (sp?) was injured and did not play. So there went their power running game.

You should also note the scores of the wins you pointed out above. Even in those wins, the defense gave up a lot of points. Which is the point I was trying to make all along. To once again be considered as a top ten program, you got to ditch the Run & Shoot offense. It just takes to much of a toll on your defense. And we all know, defense wins championships.

[Warbow]

I believe that Warbow is exactly right and I posted this opinion right after June Jones was hired including his record while at Hawaii against good teams. Another point is, to me, that I know of no other major college football teams using the Run & Shoot offense except possibly Hawaii which I think has gone more to a running game type offense. Anybody know of any other school in the R&S? If it is a viable scheme why are not more teams using it?

Hawaii still throws it as much as they ever did. Last year their QB led the nation in passing yards.

Yes we did BUT, most of that yardage were YAC yards. Our passing game was our running game also. Little short dink passes were turned into big gainers by our receivers. Moniz (Hawaii's QB) rarely completed a pass over 20 yards. A lot of 4-8 yard passes with a lot of YAC yards.

We still ran the "Run & Shoot formations" but it was more of the "ball-control passing game" system we ran. Little short sideline passes, shuffle passes, half-back flare passes and those bubble screens is what we did most of the time. The slots turned into running-backs after the reception. That gave us time for the defense to rest up. It seemed to help, as Hawaii's defense led the nation in take aways last year.

JJ has no defensive concept with his OWN defense. To be honest with you, I don't think he really cares what his defense does because he's so sure that his offense can score at any time.

[sbsmith]

I believe that Warbow is exactly right and I posted this opinion right after June Jones was hired including his record while at Hawaii against good teams. Another point is, to me, that I know of no other major college football teams using the Run & Shoot offense except possibly Hawaii which I think has gone more to a running game type offense. Anybody know of any other school in the R&S? If it is a viable scheme why are not more teams using it?

Hawaii still throws it as much as they ever did. Last year their QB led the nation in passing yards.

Yes we did BUT, most of that yardage were YAC yards. Our passing game was our running game also. Little short dink passes were turned into big gainers by our receivers. Moniz (Hawaii's QB) rarely completed a pass over 20 yards. A lot of 4-8 yard passes with a lot of YAC yards.

We still ran the "Run & Shoot formations" but it was more of the "ball-control passing game" system we ran. Little short sideline passes, shuffle passes, half-back flare passes and those bubble screens is what we did most of the time. The slots turned into running-backs after the reception. That gave us time for the defense to rest up. It seemed to help, as Hawaii's defense led the nation in take aways last year.

JJ has no defensive concept with his OWN defense. To be honest with you, I don't think he really cares what his defense does because he's so sure that his offense can score at any time.

He just wants his defense to get takeaways, the only time he mentions the unit is when he's referring to how much or how little they're taking the ball away from the other team.

[Buddha]

Ok look, Bennett, Cavan, Rossley, Gregg, Collins and even Meyer, did some things I didn't like. Coach Jones tries an on-side kick and it failed, but he made up for it by pulling KP and tossing in J.J. Please remember that IF it wasn't for June Jones our ponies would not have been in a bowl game the last 2 seasons. June Jones is the best SMU coach in many, many years. He has a plan, now just sip on your beers and watch it play out this season.

Welcome to the board, Mr./Mrs. McDermott. Hope JJ has a huge game this weekend.

[rich59]

I did an analysis once before and posted it here. Not going to do it again but Hawaii, when Jones was coaching there had a big advantage when playing at home. Teams traveling to Hawaii had to deal with jet lag and a strange environment. Of course, Hawaii must deal with jet lag when traveling to the mainland also but often they stayed on the mainland and played more than one game here. I believe those conditions contributed some to his success there and is still a factor in Hawaii's favor.

To be clear, my opinion is that JJ can and has made SMU a little stronger program than it has been since the DP. He and his staff seem to be good recruiters and they have probably gotten some concessions from the school administration on academics. However I don't believe they can get SMU to the level of, for example, TCU, because of the limitations imposed by the JJ philosophy.

The run and shoot is basically a passing offense with the only run threat being the draw play with the setback who is primarily a blocker.
There is no tight end who can block for the run.
There is no fullback to be used as a lead blocker or to share the load as a runner.
There is no threat from the QB as a runner or as an option operator.
All of the above means there is little or no misdirection or deception to the running plays.
The offensive line spends little time working on run blocking and in fact seldom or never gets into a three point stance.
Those of us who have played football know how difficult it is to block for the run from the standup position, particularly in a short yardage situation.
Since the QB is seldom or never under the center, the handoff to the runner is not as great a surprise or as deceptive.
A defense that only practises against a passing attack cannot be nearly as physical and effective against a team that runs the ball.
The attitude of a defense which has a quick striking pass offense is different from a defense which has a more conventional offense which may have to work harder and longer to score.
The fact is that few if any other college teams use the run and shoot and no pro teams.
There has to be a good reason for that and it is obviously true that few other than JJ believe it the run and shoot.