UTEP Gets Florida St. transfer

[Stallion]

WR/QB Lorne Sam apparently will transfer to UTEP. 6-3, 185 4.4 rated a 4 star and No. 22 "Athlete" in the nation coming out of high school. Wants to return to QB position apparently.

[Charleston Pony]

With it's progress in football/bball, UTEP is establishing itself as the program to beat in CUSA West.

[davidsmu94]

It amazes me that those guys can slap a bow on the pig that is El Paso and sell it, but SMU in the heart of Dallas is lucky to get a three star.

[Letterman]

I wonder if this guy has ever even visited El Paso.

[SoCal_Pony]

It is interesting to see how tolerant Pony fans have become after 18 years of complete futility.

We have an easy strength of schedule (109 of 119 can be debated, the overall weakness cannot) and 6 home games, yet I suspect the consensus on this board is we will produce 4 wins this year and that 2006, Bennett’s 5th year here, will be his make or break season.

Contrast that with UTEP. During the 3 years prior to Mike Price’s arrival, the Miners went 6-30; their only victories coming against Texas Southern, Sacramento State and Sam Houston State; and conference wins against a 1-10 Tulsa team, a 4-7 Rice team, and a 0-12 SMU team. Last year, Mike’s first, they were ranked in the Top 25 and lost a heart-breaker to a good Colorado team in the Houston bowl.

In viewing the pros and cons of these schools, I can only see 2 key advantages UTEP and El Paso have over SMU and Dallas, a better coach and a true commitment to excellence.

[Dooby]

It is interesting to see how tolerant Pony fans have become after 18 years of complete futility.

We have an easy strength of schedule (109 of 119 can be debated, the overall weakness cannot) and 6 home games, yet I suspect the consensus on this board is we will produce 4 wins this year and that 2006, Bennett’s 5th year here, will be his make or break season.

Contrast that with UTEP. During the 3 years prior to Mike Price’s arrival, the Miners went 6-30; their only victories coming against Texas Southern, Sacramento State and Sam Houston State; and conference wins against a 1-10 Tulsa team, a 4-7 Rice team, and a 0-12 SMU team. Last year, Mike’s first, they were ranked in the Top 25 and lost a heart-breaker to a good Colorado team in the Houston bowl.

In viewing the pros and cons of these schools, I can only see 2 key advantages UTEP and El Paso have over SMU and Dallas, a better coach and a true commitment to excellence.

I am sure Stallion would love to explain how UTEP did it by bringing in a dozen JuCo's that all started. He would then explain that we don't offer the classes to get those athlete's hours transferred and therefore we can't get them in school at SMU. I'd do it, but I am too tired.

[GoRedGoBlue]

It amazes me that those guys can slap a bow on the pig that is El Paso and sell it, but SMU in the heart of Dallas is lucky to get a three star.

Has a lot more to do with 'relaxed' admission standards than anything else....plus his old recruiting ties perhaps.

If the chains were totally released, I have no doubt we'd get some of these as well.

[Dark Horse]

I agree. How many JUCOs did UTEP sign this year? 17 or something?

[Cheesesteak]

How does anybody know if this kid could gain transfer admission to SMU, TCU, Baylor or Tulane, etc.? I am constantly amazed at how seldom, if ever, anybody on this board mentions a transfer's academic or human profile...and I am not talking about players who could transfer from FSU to Stanford or Notre Dame.

Lorne Sam could be academically and socially legitimate or very good/excellent, but I don't (and possibly noone else on this board does) know if he was successful in FSU's classrooms and labs or as a member of the FSU athletics and general communities.

If he is a legitimate student then I hope that he contacted SMU and that SMU evaluated him and communicated/responded appropriately.

While mistakes are sometimes made by HS players when selecting a university (offering a scholarship) (facts/the situation can change after a player has matriculated at the university that he signed his NLofI with) it is my opinion that most athletic transfers choose a new university/program that is right for them.

Just throwing out that UTEP got a four-star transfer doesn't say much more than that he was a highly-rated HS player.

Can anyone add more facts about this young man?

[Stallion]

Cheesecake there is a 15 year track record at schools like TCU and Baylor which is so markedly different than the trackrecord at SMU that either (a) you have not researched the matter and don't know what you are talking about or (b) you have your head in the sand. Either way the fact is that in the coming years when we line up against schools like TCU or UTEP they will have 6-10 Division 1A transfers or more -generally BCS school transfers) and SMU will not. Further, many of these kids are Parade All-Americans, 3-4 and 5 star players and have IN FACT played critical roles in defeating SMU football team in the past.

[Cheesesteak]

Stallion, L.M.P. (Legendary Manure Producer) - add these to your underweight list [(a) and (b)] of options:

(C) Mike Price (a proven winner) is a super attraction (National Coach of the Year, 3 times PAC 10 Coach of the Year, won PAC 10 Co-Championship, temporarily Alabama’s HC) for a player (JUCO or transfer) who is/might be short on remaining eligibility.

Mike Price is one of the foremost collegiate coaches. He would not have “transferred” to the Miners if he hadn’t put himself in the penalty box.

Phil Bennett has an opportunity to prove he is solid HC material. He has to build his team primarily with HS recruits (supplemented with a sprinkling of JUCOS & transfers) who are developed on the Hilltop.

(D) UTEP has a player source mix that SMU will probably never match or desire to match. If UTEP signs 15 or more JUCOS per year and has 6–10 transfers on the roster then UTEP’s team composition could approach 50% or greater JUCOS & transfers.

(E) SMU has recent transfers from Texas Tech (BCS School) and AFA. SMU’s new School of Education could attract additional talented transfers in the future.

(F) Does UTEP have the most lenient admissions requirements of the CUSA West schools? Does LS need lenient transfer admissions standards? Maybe his academic credentials gave him lots of options. I don’t know, do you?

(G) SMU has relaxed its admissions standards for student-athletes but I presume most Ponyfans (who have an SMU degree) would not want Perkins Administration to go to a de facto open admissions policy like some schools have.

(H) LS could have been funneled to UTEP without any opportunity for SMU to compete for his services. Houston, Tulsa, Tulane and others probably would be interested in a QB/WR from a powerhouse BCS School but he chose UTEP. Maybe UTEP was/is the only school in the running for him.

(I) Every collegiate football coaching staff / program that offers scholarships has well-thought-out profiles of the types of players/regions/programs they want to recruit and can successfully recruit. SMU’s football staff is following its plan.

It is sophistry to just post a transfer player’s HS credentials (as you frequently do) and leave some readers to surmise that SMU lost out on another talented athlete. Every player along with every player - school courtship (HS recruit / transfer / JUCO) is different. If a player never considered SMU for any of a myriad of reasons then SMU did not lose him.

(J) Baylor’s last winning season was 1995 – as a member of the SWC. SMU lost a very close game in Waco in the only recent contest between the schools.

[Dooby]

Regarding C & D. I don't care where a player was developed (on the hilltop, JuCo transfer) if he contributes. If 20 of 22 starters are transfers or JuCo's and that is our coach's decision, that is fine with me. I think that is probably unwise practice, but that should be the decision of the coach. That is what he is paid for and it is his @ss on the line. I am not going to tell a coach wh to recruit. I don't care about "source mix."

Regarding E. The issue isn't attracting transfers, the issue is getting earned credits at other institutions transferrable to SMU. If the hours don't transfer, the kid can't get a scholarship and if the kid can't get a scholarship, the kid won't come here. It is a legitimate problem, not merely one of "attracting" kids.

Regarding F & G. Lenient admission requirements. I don't mean to belittle SMU as an institution, but the fact is that the criteria for getting an admit as an athlet at SMU is the reasonable likelyhood of graduation in 4-5 years. That has led to a student-athlete graduation rate that exceeds the SMU population as a whole (look it up 74% v. 69%). Which, is not that surprising considering SMU accepts 2 out of every 3 applicants (again, look it up). SMU is less exclusive as a whole than many of the institutions that consistently kick its behind on the football field. SMU has lenient admission requirements; it just arbitrarily chooses to judge its athletes by a different criteria than anybody else.

Regarding I. I don't believe the SMU coaches are recruiting from the size of a pool that they would like to and believe they need to. Bennett has said as much and I agree.

Regarding J. "Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades."

[GoRedGoBlue]

Regarding E: If a QB from NWU would have transferred to Georgetown or Rice, or any other small university, those institutions would have had a hard time getting credits transferred. It is simply a matter of WHAT will transfer, according to what courses the transferring institution offers. SMU cannot give transfer credit to a course they do not offer - or they risk losing their accreditation.

For example, say a QB from NW took 4 hours of PE, well, it is true that SMU offers PE, they only allow 2 hours to count toward your degree (or your 'progress'), and thus 4 might even transfer, but only 2 count for anything. Another example, say the student was a nuclear engineering student at Texas A&M or Purdue, and they had 15 engineering credits that SMU didn't even sort of offer...well, those will not transfer.

Another example: say an SMU Cinema student transfers to Texas A&M, well, many of their credits will simply not transfer to Aggieland, but would transfer to T-sipperville (because they offer those credits).

Finally, say a second year medical student at Texas wants to transfer to SMU or Oklahoma, but has to go to Okla - then all of the SMU alumni [deleted] adn complain that we missed out on a nice bright student...well, those credits are not going to transfer because SMU doesn't have a medical school...

Are we clear on this?

Transfer credit is not a matter of 'just allowing the transfer'. SMU has to offer the coursework as well - hence the new Education Degree to assist towards this end.

Yes, the Pye model eliminating PE really hurt us with JUCOs and other transfers...

But being a small university with FEWER course offerings and fewer degree granting colleges is just the nature of the beast - transfers WILL most likely lose credits unless they were placed in JUCO by SMU Coaches with specific coursework directives.

[Dooby]

But being a small university with FEWER course offerings and fewer degree granting colleges is just the nature of the beast - transfers WILL most likely lose credits unless they were placed in JUCO by SMU Coaches with specific coursework directives.

TCU is smaller and doesn't have near the problems with transferrable hours. As Yoda says, "Size matters not."

[GoRedGoBlue]

But being a small university with FEWER course offerings and fewer degree granting colleges is just the nature of the beast - transfers WILL most likely lose credits unless they were placed in JUCO by SMU Coaches with specific coursework directives.

TCU is smaller and doesn't have near the problems with transferrable hours. As Yoda says, "Size matters not."

Don't take comments out of context. Obviously, they do not have as hard of a time as SMU does...they offer P.E. don't they? They have an education department right? They have CRIMINAL JUSTICE degree, right? They have a sociology degree (I think 88% of all sociology majors at AUBURN are athletes, incredible).

My statement is not false in anyway. Smaller schools with fewer academic avenues will not be able to transfer as many students as larger state schools witha plethora of avenues.

As SMU adds the education department, we can see more potential for transferable credits from athlete-friendly majors.