Would it split the fanbase even worse if June comes back?

[alamocitystang]

Let me start by saying that I don't buy into the theory that Junes recruiting is significantly worse than the rest of the conference. Comparisons to our instate rivals our futile right now because they are all so much higher than we are. That might put me in the category of June supporter. Recruiting in the AAC while it is much better than CUSA and Sunbelt, is no where near P5. No one in our conference outside of USF has more than 3 players with multiple P5 offers. And very few even have 3. Before the de commitment of Harris, we were very near the top of the conference in terms of stars and players with P5 offers. That being said, confidence in the program is at an all time low for many reasons that I believe are out of the control of the head coach. But college football isn't about being fair. We as stakeholders need confidence in this program and this is June's biggest failure as leader of the program. For that reason, I am for his departure. I don't think firing him is good for the program. I'm hoping he retires. In my lifetime (after I was 3 years old) the only successful coach has been June. He needs to go out with the respect deserved of the title,"Only successful post-DP head coach." IMHO

And to answer the original topic, the 20 fans of this program left aren't going anywhere. Our situation is no different than the previous 2 years. Conference stability looks to be a reality for several years, so you might say the situation is better than previous years. The final piece of the puzzle is how much the CoC are willing to help with the hiring of the next coach. If they have soured on the investment, then we're pretty much done once the next round of realignment rolls around.

[ponyboy]

We are getting 2 extra wins per season despite playing in a vastly poopier conference...whoopideefreakingdoo...we weren't on our death bed, we were desperately looking for one or two more wins that our talent-level and admission policies denied us getting.

From what I saw last Friday (and most first halfs), 2006 SMU would have massacred 2013 SMU...and that's sad.

Nice selectivity. The 2006 team was 6-6. How about 2007? How about 2005? How about 2003? How about just about any other season post DP?

Two extra wins per season? Where'd you get that? We went from a 28% win percentage in the twenty years before JJ got here to a 57% win percentage over the last four years. Help me with your math.

While you're at it, talk a little bit about conference shuffling and where we would have ended up had we not suddenly become a perennial bowl team.

[SMUer]

Bennett got 3, 0, 3, 5, 6 and 1 win. June has 1, 7, 7, 7, 6 season wins. In 4 of Bennett's 6 seasons he was within 4, 4, 2, 1 wins of June's best; average 2.75 more wins. I was considering June's best (7 wins) vs. Bennett's best (5,6 wins)...so 1.5 more wins. You can call that being selective looking at only two of Bennett's seasons but I'd say you are being just as selective pointing at Bennett's 0 and 1 win seasons and saying we were a dead team. June has played a lighter OCC, in a cream-puff conference, under way less recruiting restrictions than Bennett...and gets us 2-3 more wins. While significant, I don't see that as "saving a program."

Do I think June's bowl wins helped us get into a scrambling AAC?...sure...how do you think they'd look at us, knowing/seeing what they have now?

[ponyboy]

Final Sagarin rankings of Bennett's best four years vs. the last four years under JJ

BENNETT
2002 (149)
2004 (126)
2005 (88)
2006 (96)

JONES
2009 (65)
2010 (83)
2011 (51)
2012 (57)

1) June Jones' WORST year in 2010 was better than Bennett's BEST year in 2005.

2) JJ's teams have averaged a freaking 51 points higher final Sagarin ranking (115 for Bennett and 64 for JJ)

Back to your crucifixion.

[East Coast Mustang]

Final Sagarin ratings of Bennett's best four years vs. the last four years under JJ

BENNETT
2002 (149)
2004 (126)
2005 (88)
2006 (96)

JONES
2009 (65)
2010 (83)
2011 (51)
2012 (57)

1) June Jones' WORST year in 2010 was better than Bennett's BEST year in 2005.

2) JJ's teams have averaged a freaking 51 points higher final Sagarin ranking (115 for Bennett and 64 for JJ)

Back to your crucifixion.

Look, the program is a lot better under JJ than it was under PB. I think everyone concedes that. JJ was one of the few people IMO in 2008 with the name recoginiton and clout that could get our faculty and admin on board with admissions that were conducive to fielding a competitive FBS program.

However, you can't look at our recruiting now and compare it to 2009 and 2010 and say JJ hasn't plateaued (at best) or, more pessimistically, has this program primed for a substantial downturn.

[ponyboy]

1. SMU'er wasn't conceding the point at all that we're demonstrably better under JJ, an amazing stance

2. The change in the admissions policies haven't been capitalized on, they haven't helped. JJ's been winning despite an improved ability to get players in here, despite his bringing in players no better than his predecessor

3. I've said at least since the end of last season that he needs to be shown the door. But holy crap we've been pretty damned good under the guy and he deserves a freaking thank you rather than a crucifixion

[smusic 00]

"Pretty damned good" is a huge stretch. Look at your own evidence.

[East Coast Mustang]

Better than we've been in a quarter century. I think JJ needs to get the hell out of town, but I appreciate him taking us to four bowl games and making this a considerably more attractive job than it was in 2008

[ponyboy]

We agree.

[smusic 00]

Agree. But I will reserve "pretty damned good" for another day.

[LHS81]

and again who cares if they are in San Antonio-they still may become a bigger player in the future. Nobody cares about our obstacles except our fans. Need a new mind set around. Ron Meyer came in and from Day 1 made our biggest obstacle-Dallas-our calling card. Big D is opportunity not a problem. Its a goldmine with more Division 1A prospects than any metro area in the Country. See Miami Hurricanes. Just need a Head Coach and Staff that can sell it like Larry Brown

Ron Meyer's philosophy about recruiting was: "Draw a line from Gainesville to San Antonio. Go east to Beaumont and back north to Texarkana. And finally back to Gainesville." Said if he could get kids just from everything inside that map. He could win a majority of the time.

[ponyboy]

Agree. But I will reserve "pretty damned good" for another day.

That's fair. Glass is half empty vs. glass is half full. Looks pretty damned good to me based on where we came from.

[SMUer]

My point wasn't that we aren't better, it was that we weren't on our death-bed, as you keep on repeating. And while better, we aren't that much better. This death-bed stuff is nonsense.

Nobody is crucifying anybody. I'm not that powerful. The fact that you liken JJ's treatment to Christ's is a further joke.

[feelthehorsepower]

My point wasn't that we aren't better, it was that we weren't on our death-bed, as you keep on repeating. And while better, we aren't that much better. This death-bed stuff is nonsense.

Nobody is crucifying anybody. I'm not that powerful. The fact that you liken JJ's treatment to Christ's is a further joke.

+1

[skurtn]

If I had one question for Turner, Hart, and any of the CoC, I'd love to hear an honest answer to this one question: Has the money spent been worth it?