Question: What counts as a "winning team"?

[SMUer]

Statistics is the humblest and yet most powerful of all sciences.

[PSCA]

I was not there nor had access to first hand knowledge, just info from someone who would know that was shared with me. Maybe they got their wires crossed or misread the situation ... I can ask again. I should have kept my mouth shut like have up to now, I don't why I said anything ... so I apologize to all. I hate he said she said w/o first hand knowledge ... and I go do it.

[ponyboy]

Where we disagree (among many other things) is that 6-31, or 8-29 or 7-30 are abysmal records, no matter how you spin it, slice it.

Sure sounds bad. Unfortunately, again, it's not that easy without something to compare to.

1) I'm still not certain what record someone could reasonably expect from a rebuilding non-P5 team who loaded up the likes on Tech, TCU, and A&M, most of which teams were ranked when we played them, often at their house.

2) "Teams with winning records" includes not just those who ended up 7-6 but also 8-5, 9-4, 10-3, 11-2, 12-1, 13-0. No team who averaged 5 wins and 6 losses over the last six seasons would win even a third of those. No team.

What we need is a comparison with a mid-level team who plays mid to uppper level P5 teams out of conference and averaged mid 80's Sagarin over a six year period. What was their record against teams with winning records? I don't have the time for an analysis as my two sick days are up and I have to get back to work.

If you don't understand the problem in making a judgement on this, I don't know how to help you.

[Mustangsabu]

Where we disagree (among many other things) is that 6-31, or 8-29 or 7-30 are abysmal records, no matter how you spin it, slice it.

Sure sounds bad. Unfortunately, again, it's not that easy without something to compare to.

1) I'm still not certain what record someone could reasonably expect from a rebuilding non-P5 team who loaded up the likes on Tech, TCU, and A&M, most of which teams were ranked when we played them, often at their house.

2) "Teams with winning records" includes not just those who ended up 7-6 but also 8-5, 9-4, 10-3, 11-2, 12-1, 13-0. No team who averaged 5 wins and 6 losses over the last six seasons would win even a third of those. No team.

What we need is a comparison with a mid-level team who plays mid to uppper level P5 teams out of conference and averaged mid 80's Sagarin over a six year period. What was their record against teams with winning records? I don't have the time for an analysis as my two sick days are up and I have to get back to work.

If you don't understand the problem in making a judgement on this, I don't know how to help you.

Well put. I fear that far too many people on this board do not understand the limitations of these stats. They do however know that they sound bad, and the war on JJ needs ammunition

[Rebel10]

Where we disagree (among many other things) is that 6-31, or 8-29 or 7-30 are abysmal records, no matter how you spin it, slice it.

Sure sounds bad. Unfortunately, again, it's not that easy without something to compare to.

1) I'm still not certain what record someone could reasonably expect from a rebuilding non-P5 team who loaded up the likes on Tech, TCU, and A&M, most of which teams were ranked when we played them, often at their house.

2) "Teams with winning records" includes not just those who ended up 7-6 but also 8-5, 9-4, 10-3, 11-2, 12-1, 13-0. No team who averaged 5 wins and 6 losses over the last six seasons would win even a third of those. No team.

What we need is a comparison with a mid-level team who plays mid to uppper level P5 teams out of conference and averaged mid 80's Sagarin over a six year period. What was their record against teams with winning records? I don't have the time for an analysis as my two sick days are up and I have to get back to work.

If you don't understand the problem in making a judgement on this, I don't know how to help you.

Just remember that bad really isn't bad and good really isn't good.

[Rebel10]

Where we disagree (among many other things) is that 6-31, or 8-29 or 7-30 are abysmal records, no matter how you spin it, slice it.

Sure sounds bad. Unfortunately, again, it's not that easy without something to compare to.

1) I'm still not certain what record someone could reasonably expect from a rebuilding non-P5 team who loaded up the likes on Tech, TCU, and A&M, most of which teams were ranked when we played them, often at their house.

2) "Teams with winning records" includes not just those who ended up 7-6 but also 8-5, 9-4, 10-3, 11-2, 12-1, 13-0. No team who averaged 5 wins and 6 losses over the last six seasons would win even a third of those. No team.

What we need is a comparison with a mid-level team who plays mid to uppper level P5 teams out of conference and averaged mid 80's Sagarin over a six year period. What was their record against teams with winning records? I don't have the time for an analysis as my two sick days are up and I have to get back to work.

If you don't understand the problem in making a judgement on this, I don't know how to help you.

Well put. I fear that far too many people on this board do not understand the limitations of these stats. They do however know that they sound bad, and the war on JJ needs ammunition

I am still waiting on you to give the stats that show that most people don't understand the stats.

[couch 'em]

Where we disagree (among many other things) is that 6-31, or 8-29 or 7-30 are abysmal records, no matter how you spin it, slice it.

Sure sounds bad. Unfortunately, again, it's not that easy without something to compare to.

1) I'm still not certain what record someone could reasonably expect from a rebuilding non-P5 team who loaded up the likes on Tech, TCU, and A&M, most of which teams were ranked when we played them, often at their house.

2) "Teams with winning records" includes not just those who ended up 7-6 but also 8-5, 9-4, 10-3, 11-2, 12-1, 13-0. No team who averaged 5 wins and 6 losses over the last six seasons would win even a third of those. No team.

What we need is a comparison with a mid-level team who plays mid to uppper level P5 teams out of conference and averaged mid 80's Sagarin over a six year period. What was their record against teams with winning records? I don't have the time for an analysis as my two sick days are up and I have to get back to work.

If you don't understand the problem in making a judgement on this, I don't know how to help you.

I think your point is fair. I propose we make that comparisin with a team in a similar conference (cusa aac mwc) and simply throw out the OOC games. I think we need several teams to compare to.

[CalallenStang]

I was not there nor had access to first hand knowledge, just info from someone who would know that was shared with me. Maybe they got their wires crossed or misread the situation ... I can ask again. I should have kept my mouth shut like have up to now, I don't why I said anything ... so I apologize to all. I hate he said she said w/o first hand knowledge ... and I go do it.

We tried to get out of the game. A&M said no. Your source has it backwards - they may have heard wrong

[CalallenStang]

Where we disagree (among many other things) is that 6-31, or 8-29 or 7-30 are abysmal records, no matter how you spin it, slice it.

Sure sounds bad. Unfortunately, again, it's not that easy without something to compare to.

1) I'm still not certain what record someone could reasonably expect from a rebuilding non-P5 team who loaded up the likes on Tech, TCU, and A&M, most of which teams were ranked when we played them, often at their house.

2) "Teams with winning records" includes not just those who ended up 7-6 but also 8-5, 9-4, 10-3, 11-2, 12-1, 13-0. No team who averaged 5 wins and 6 losses over the last six seasons would win even a third of those. No team.

What we need is a comparison with a mid-level team who plays mid to uppper level P5 teams out of conference and averaged mid 80's Sagarin over a six year period. What was their record against teams with winning records? I don't have the time for an analysis as my two sick days are up and I have to get back to work.

If you don't understand the problem in making a judgement on this, I don't know how to help you.

I think your point is fair. I propose we make that comparisin with a team in a similar conference (cusa aac mwc) and simply throw out the OOC games. I think we need several teams to compare to.

Possible to find one in a similar salary range?

[ponyboy]

Good point. Find an AAC, MWC or CUSA coach who's also been free.

[redpony]

PB - Since when has jj been working for free? I understand that his performance and recruiting is indicative of that level of pay but I was under the impression that he is being paid handsomely for his services (or lack thereof).

[ponyboy]

Not by SMU.

[couch 'em]

Good point. Find an AAC, MWC or CUSA coach who's also been free.

Now you are being ridiculous

[ponyboy]

How so? The CoC, not SMU, has paid the guy's salary. It's their money, not SMU's.

[Rebel10]

Not by SMU.

A lot of schools boosters pay their coaches through the booster clubs just like SMU.