Local Recruiting

Hoop Fan · Post by **Hoop Fan** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:15 pm

PonySnob wrote:How many DISD players did we sign while Tubbs was the head coach at SMU?

In one year, none. Which I also thought was a mistake. Tubbs started thinking juco, and brought in guys like Ike and Epps. Probably because SMU only gave him a short 4 yr contract. The message was win now. Tubbs made some mistakes in my opinion too, but that has nothing to do with the validity of the argument for local recruiting whether Doh does it, or tubbs does it, or dement does it. It must be done.

mustangxc · Post by **mustangxc** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:09 pm

Hoop Fan wrote:question. Did the team outperform its ability last year? Hardly. Is it outperforming now? Sure hope not. The sets we run now, the defense, the intensity, looks substanitally the same as the tubbs years and most of the dement years. As for the enthusiasm you speak of, where is it? Were you at the Prairie View game? Dead. There is no buzz about this team. Even when a team is young, you can feel it when things are building. Unlike the Sasser class, I don't feel it. and i promise you I am paying attention. I venture to guess I want SMU basketball to succeed as much as you or anyone.

I know you want SMU to succeed, I have not questioned that. My argument against Tubbs is that the roster he was handed of Simpson, Castro, Hopkins, Isham, Pearson, etc. was much more talented than the roster Doherty was handed last year. This year's team is a bunch of freshman and a few spares in the upper classes. I don't blame Dement, Tubbs, or Doherty for the lack of experience. Tubbs is more at fault than Dement, but it is the SMU administration's fault for the lack of direction. Doherty at this point has to start fresh. My argument is that Dement left a decaying program to Tubbs and Tubbs did not have the necessary skill to right the ship or start anew. SMU botched his hiring because Tubbs was not the name needed to reenergize the program and transition from Dement. At the same time, if SMU believed in Tubbs when they hired him they should have signed him to a 5-year contract and given him the slack to bring in strong freshmen classes over a 5-year period. Tubbs did not use the roster he had properly and did not bring a talented enough junior college class and now we are left with no sophmores and 1 junior. I blame SMU above administrators, but Tubbs did not know what he was doing either.

Doherty's roster last year was not bad, but not nearly as good as the 2004-05 roster. This year's is loaded on freshmen and the rest is not good to say the least.

Pony_Fan · Post by **Pony_Fan** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:24 pm

we must be bored today

rehash

gregkinzer · Post by **gregkinzer** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:26 pm

SMUs track record of recruiting from the DISD has been horrible for years. Not since Bliss have we ever had anyone that really made any inroads in South Dallas other than Sasser under Dement. The fact of the matter is that we have had a big bag of nothing prior to Tubbs being hired as head coach.

I personally think it all started after A. Kenneth Pye turned his back on Bliss' prize recruit - Larry Johnson. SMU made him retake the ACT, he gave us the finger and from that point on the gates have been pretty well shut.

I personally like Jimmy Tubbs -- he was my asst. coach for 3 years when I played -- but Shumate hired him for ONE reason -- to open the pipeline to the talent in South Dallas. That never materialized when he was asst. coach nor in his short tenure as head coach. We had alot

So lets agree that Tubbs might have been given a raw deal (all coaches go over the 20 hour practice limit) but that he was not the recruiting answer for south dallas talent. Factor this into the ever-discussed academic requirements and you can see we have an uphill battle to fight in our own backyeard.

Good times. There are always the suburbs!

Pony_Fan · Post by **Pony_Fan** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:11 pm

There ya go HF, from someone who knows what he is talking about..

Stallion · Post by **Stallion** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:23 pm

well its simply not accurate. SMU under Dement/Tubbs signed at least 7-8 kids from DFW who were Texas Top 20.

Hopkins
Sasser
Ross
Willie Davis
Elsey
Han(thingy)
Nigel Smith-very highly rated-had sinus/brain surgery
Isham (not sure he was Top 20 but he was darn close)
Chris Reay(close)

I bet there are more, but most of these guys were very highly recruited and are an unusually high percentage of our best players. Its irrefutable that our players on our best teams were from Dallas.

Hoop Fan · Post by **Hoop Fan** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:29 pm

gregkinzer wrote:SMUs track record of recruiting from the DISD has been horrible for years. Not since Bliss have we ever had anyone that really made any inroads in South Dallas other than Sasser under Dement. The fact of the matter is that we have had a big bag of nothing prior to Tubbs being hired as head coach.

I personally think it all started after A. Kenneth Pye turned his back on Bliss' prize recruit - Larry Johnson. SMU made him retake the ACT, he gave us the finger and from that point on the gates have been pretty well shut.

I personally like Jimmy Tubbs -- he was my asst. coach for 3 years when I played -- but Shumate hired him for ONE reason -- to open the pipeline to the talent in South Dallas. That never materialized when he was asst. coach nor in his short tenure as head coach. We had alot

So lets agree that Tubbs might have been given a raw deal (all coaches go over the 20 hour practice limit) but that he was not the recruiting answer for south dallas talent. Factor this into the ever-discussed academic requirements and you can see we have an uphill battle to fight in our own backyeard.

Good times. There are always the suburbs!

It was more than Sasser. There is a guy in the NBA right now doing pretty well named Quinton Ross. Also, a guy named Bryan Hopkins who beside a foot injury in the State Championship game, had a good career at SMU but might have been terrific if he didnt have that injury. Regardless, who is the answer to opening up recruiting, or reopening it in my view, in South Dallas? We need that answer.

As for the Simpson, Castro senior year. That was a .500 team no matter who the coach was. No better than that. Just didnt have the rebounding, shooting or defensive ability. that was a flawed team. This program is still reeling from Dements last recruiting class beforre Tubbs came back too as much as anything. THAT is the current senior class with Killen, Ritter, Roberts and company. You guys do realize that? History has a way of getting lost around here.

Hoop Fan · Post by **Hoop Fan** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:31 pm

Stallion wrote:well its simply not accurate. SMU under Dement/Tubbs signed at least 7-8 kids from DFW who were Texas Top 20.

Hopkins
Sasser
Ross
Willie Davis
Elsey
[deleted]
Nigel Smith-very highly rated-had sinus/brain surgery
Isham (not sure he was Top 20 but he was darn close)

I bet there are more, but most of these guys were very highly recruited and are an unusually high percentage of our best players. Its irrefutable that our players on our best teams were from Dallas.

Damon Hanc-ock was another one. He was fairly highly recruited by programs like Minnesota. He was from Desoto, another Dallas area power program.

Hoop Fan · Post by **Hoop Fan** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:33 pm

Pony_Fan wrote:There ya go HF, from someone who knows what he is talking about..

I respect big Greg's opinion, but that doesn't make him completely right. So there ya go.

Stallion · Post by **Stallion** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:33 pm

yeah they delete him. He was definitely a Texas Top 20. The fact is that is a list that includes just about ALL of our best players.

Charleston Pony · Post by **Charleston Pony** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:42 pm

I would agree that the majority of our most productive players in recent years have come from the Dallas metro area and that it is critical for SMU to recruit the Metroplex in all sports. Right now, due in part to the Tubbs fiasco and to be fair, in part because we have been a horrible program that nobody cares to support - Doherty is having to recruit countrywide for Division I talent. We can only hope that Doherty can rebuild a program of interest that will attract more attention locally, but I agree he should at least be letting the local kids klnow he ins interested in them - if they are interested in SMU. By now, Doherty clearly appreciates the fact that SMU needs the support (attendance wise) of all the family and friends of players that can be mustered.

George S. Patton · Post by **George S. Patton** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:02 pm

Stallion wrote:well its simply not accurate. SMU under Dement/Tubbs signed at least 7-8 kids from DFW who were Texas Top 20.

Hopkins
Sasser
Ross
Willie Davis
Elsey
Han(thingy)
Nigel Smith-very highly rated-had sinus/brain surgery
Isham (not sure he was Top 20 but he was darn close)
Chris Reay(close)

I bet there are more, but most of these guys were very highly recruited and are an unusually high percentage of our best players. Its irrefutable that our players on our best teams were from Dallas.

So I guess that means we can just exclude Alex Malone from Doherty. He committed to Tubbs. Didn't mean he had to sign with Doherty. Doherty had to secure that relationship. Or Malone could have re-opened his recruitment. It happened with some top players at Georgia Tech when Paul Johnson came on board. So what Doherty did was important.

Nyakundi? Well, I guess we'll see about that.

And if people are going to get on Doherty for his first recruiting class in Spencer, remember he said he wasn't married to the idea of signing someone in that late period. But he thought he could fit.

So here are the Texas kids Doherty recruited
Nyakundi (Arlington Bowie)
Rhodes (Garland -- before he moved to Oakland because he had a connection)
Malone (Mansfield Timberview)
Ryan Harp (Abilene Cooper)
Cameron Spencer (Little Cypress-Mauriceville)

Looks to me like he's recruiting this area and this state.

As for the DISD, I guess when Goree Johnson gives his blessing, then we can come back.

Appreciate you, Goree! Appreciate you, Goree!

mustangxc · Post by **mustangxc** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:44 pm

Hoop Fan wrote:It was more than Sasser. There is a guy in the NBA right now doing pretty well named Quinton Ross. Also, a guy named Bryan Hopkins who beside a foot injury in the State Championship game, had a good career at SMU but might have been terrific if he didnt have that injury. Regardless, who is the answer to opening up recruiting, or reopening it in my view, in South Dallas? We need that answer.

As for the Simpson, Castro senior year. That was a .500 team no matter who the coach was. No better than that. Just didnt have the rebounding, shooting or defensive ability. that was a flawed team. This program is still reeling from Dements last recruiting class beforre Tubbs came back too as much as anything. THAT is the current senior class with Killen, Ritter, Roberts and company. You guys do realize that? History has a way of getting lost around here.

I agree that one of the significant contributors to our current situation is our current senior class, which Dement recruited once Tubbs was no longer on his staff. As a result there is no question that SMU's recruiting efforts tailed off once Dement lost Tubbs to OU. However, the junior and sophmore classes are a combination of Tubbs, Dement, SMU's administration (because of all the upheaval) and maybe Doherty's fault (not realistic to ask a guy to bring in a class at the time he was hired since it was past signing date). I still argue that the teams Tubbs inherited more talented than the team Doherty inherited last year, but that is subjective.

mustangxc · Post by **mustangxc** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 8:01 pm

Hoop Fan wrote:question. Did the team outperform its ability last year? Hardly. Is it outperforming now? Sure hope not. The sets we run now, the defense, the intensity, looks substanitally the same as the tubbs years and most of the dement years. As for the enthusiasm you speak of, where is it? Were you at the Prairie View game? Dead. There is no buzz about this team. Even when a team is young, you can feel it when things are building. Unlike the Sasser class, I don't feel it. and i promise you I am paying attention. I venture to guess I want SMU basketball to succeed as much as you or anyone.

Sorry I hadn't answered these questions. I think that SMU did more last year with the talent it had than it did the previous year with the talent it had. Keep in mind that last year's team was basically the same as the previous year only with the loss of a major piece. If you don't think Bryan Hopkins was a major loss then I don't know what to say. I do think there is more hope surrounding the program now than there has been at any point since Quinton Ross graduated. I agree that our current record and the losses are very disappointing to say the least but I have full confidence that it will get much better in the coming years, if only because our players will get older, their bodies will mature, and they will have more game experience.

Hoop Fan · Post by **Hoop Fan** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 8:21 pm

I was one of the few that defended hopkins around here, and one of the few who saw him play in high school and knew how much the injury he sustained changed him as a player. That was really unlucky for us because he never had the same explosion again.

I have never criticized Doh or any coach who is hired in April or May to bring in a good recruiting class that year. But thats exactly the point about Tubbs. He was in the SAME position and doherty and by this point in his tenure most of you had given up on him. People have a double standard about that though. Tubbs brought in Ike that spring. not a horrible pickup. Doh brought Spencer in. Now, nothing against Spencer, but he is absolutely buried on the bench behind freshman right now. That is not good. What Doherty clearly should have done that spring is sign a juco, or attract a quality transfer that would have become eligible this year. That is something Doherty could have done and should have done so that we were not in this position right now. And fought to keep Dez from going to North Texas. If Spencer was a contributor I would not say this, but Doh does not play him. We would be 8-2 right now with an Ike type player and Dez. The freshmen would still be getting plenty of time and probably would have more confidence with some more experience around them. Bottom line for me is everybody has drunk the kool aid and given Doh a pass when the truth is he has made a couple mistakes himself that have directly led to unnecessary losses to some very, very bad teams this year. Yes, we have the young excuse, but these losses still hurt the program very badly.