Should SMU seek a new president?

[RGV Pony]

This thread is a joke. College athletics from BC$ to mid-majors is in trouble because of inane supporters, who feel we can only value our degrees and self-worth based on a FB program. Get a life.

right. We should follow the U of Chicago's example. Or Trinity U. D3 baby.

[Stallion]

BTW that kid DE Lawrence Cayou that June found late in Louisiana who we thought we would get before Tech stepped in days before signing date-also did not qualify under the NCAA Clearinghouse. SMU is going after a lot of kids who realistically have little chance of getting admitted. I have no problems with late qualifiers but it should be noted

[Pony ^]

the Greek system is starting to be pathetic. The school is harder to get into. The quality of the students coming in are terrible. There needs to be a change

[03Mustang]

the Greek system is starting to be pathetic. The school is harder to get into. The quality of the students coming in are terrible. There needs to be a change

Your statement appears to be full of contradictions...care to clarify?

[Pony ^]

I didn't mean the quality of the students in a smart, well educated way. I meant that the students coming have the grades and it shows. They are no fun and have no social ability. Basically, they are nerds and it is showing in the greek system. It doesn't help that the administration continues to put the fraternities on probation for stupid.
Basically this school is changing in front of us and you can clearly see by looking at the diminishing greek system

[Samurai Stang]

That being said, things are definitely different now. I don't think we are living in the era of institutional hostility to athletics at SMU anymore. That's why I think the screaming on this board about this issue is way overdone. But I was there in the dark days. . .I understand why they scream.

Simply because there was a darker time for SMU in the past does not make what is happening today acceptable. Additionally, I assure you there are faculty that regularly mock SMU athletics. I have even heard several deans disparage the program.

You have not been on campus since "the dark days," and your blind, unsupported belief that the faculty supports athletics is simply incorrect. I would think the saga of Jeremy Hall would have made that point obvious on its own.

But you will tell me about how things were worse once, as though that excuses the actions of today. It does not.

[Samurai Stang]

It's just the Pony Nation in its usual overreaction mode. Yeah, yeah, I'm guilty of it too.

I think we need to give the powers that be the opportunity to either explain the decision (although it had better be a damn good one for these kids that are getting yanked at the 11th hour) or correct the issue.

If they wanted to explain themselves they wouldn't have made their announcement on the Friday before your American celebration. Three and four day weekends are the greatest form of cover. The timing was a brilliant maneuver, but the issue has no doubt become greater than they had anticipated.

What will you do when either do not receive an answer, or do not care for the answer you are given?

[Cardinal Puff]

Turner has done a remarkable job with SMU from getting football into gear with the circle of champions, to literally rebuilding the campus to rebuilding engineering and education in to nationally recognized programs. Just ridiculous to think we should seek a new president. He has brought back former supporters and found new donors who have made contributions. SMU is a much better place due to the work of Turner.

[RushStPony]

It's obvious that Samurai Stang has a personal or lingering grudge against Turner. Perhaps he is a liberal that is so insecure about Bush and SMU that he still cannot let it go...Perhaps he met Turner one time and he was rude to SS. Or maybe Turner slept with his wife....

Some of this talk is borderline psychotic. So, Turner is an idiot for upholding university admissions standards? I'm not wild about this situation and I don't think it was handled properly...But fire Turner over this? Please, get a grip folks...

Some of you guys remind me of some LSU fans I grew up with..."Sack Jindal for the lost recruit!"

[Samurai Stang]

It's obvious that Samurai Stang has a personal or lingering grudge against Turner. Perhaps he is a liberal that is so insecure about Bush and SMU that he still cannot let it go...Perhaps he met Turner one time and he was rude to SS. Or maybe Turner slept with his wife.... Some of this talk is borderline psychotic.

You are the one implying that I have an ulterior motive, when I have clearly stated why I believe Turner is problem. Whether or not you disagree with me, I have been honest in my thoughts. Furthermore, I have described what I believe to be Turner's other failures, both in regards to athletics and the rest university. I do not understand how you believe yourself the more intelligent, when you respond to my legitimate problems with mere name-calling.

Based upon your conclusions, perhaps you should question your own mental stability.

[ALEX LIFESON]

Turner has done a remarkable job with SMU from getting football into gear with the circle of champions, to literally rebuilding the campus to rebuilding engineering and education in to nationally recognized programs. Just ridiculous to think we should seek a new president. He has brought back former supporters and found new donors who have made contributions. SMU is a much better place due to the work of Turner.

I agree with Turner and the academic progress part, but, "getting football into gear", and Circle of Champions???? please!!!This was Orsini's baby. Bennett wasn't fired in 2007 because Turner wouldn't let it happen, same thing with Doh last year. Bringing June to SMU was donor's money, Turner didn't even have to look for the check book.

[Samurai Stang]

Turner has done a remarkable job with SMU from getting football into gear with the circle of champions, to literally rebuilding the campus to rebuilding engineering and education in to nationally recognized programs. Just ridiculous to think we should seek a new president. He has brought back former supporters and found new donors who have made contributions. SMU is a much better place due to the work of Turner.

And a more expensive school, as tuition rises steadily every year.
And a school whose academic ranking has decreased, as per Princeton Review.
And a school whose national image is tarnished due to consistent athletic failures.

Additionally, Turner did not create the Circle of Champions. That was Orsini. (from his biography on the SMU's own website: "To land Jones, Orsini convinced over 20 donors to join his creation, "The Circle of Champions," and commit $100,000 a year for five years, giving SMU the ability to compete financially with top-25 institutions.") http://www.smu.edu/AboutSMU/Administration/Dir-Ath.aspx

[Cardinal Puff]

What school is not more expensive year to year? When you look at the peer rankings, SMU has moved up significantly. While the top 35 schools is a pretty tight list that won't budge, SMU has now worked in to the middle third of the top one hundred and it has been done during Turner's time. Go through the members of the circle of champions and you would be hard pressed to find one who was not tied to the trustees before Orsini. Wouldn't have happened without Turner.

[Samurai Stang]

What school is not more expensive year to year?

True, but SMU increases eight percent every year. The means that tuition more than doubles every ten years. Far above what would be naturally expected

When you look at the peer rankings, SMU has moved up significantly. While the top 35 schools is a pretty tight list that won't budge, SMU has now worked in to the middle third of the top one hundred and it has been done during Turner's time.

US News and World Report rankings are the standard for this, and they only came into existence in 2000, five years into Turner's presidency. Therefore, it is impossible to compare Turner to his predecessors by means of this ranking system.

Go through the members of the circle of champions and you would be hard pressed to find one who was not tied to the trustees before Orsini. Wouldn't have happened without Turner.

The membership of the Circle of Champions is not public information, although some members are known. Those that I am aware of are listed below.
1. Don Donally - SMU graduate
2. Richard Collins - SMU graduate
3. Gerald Ford - SMU graduate
4. Paul Loyd - SMU graduate
5. Carl Sewell - SMU graduate
6. Richard Ware -SMU graduate
7. Brad Brookshire - SMU graduate
8. Gary Crum - SMU graduate
9. Randall Goss - SMU graduate
10. Daniel Hunt - SMU graduate
11. Clark Hunt - SMU graduate

It would appear that their giving was more likely due to their connection to SMU. True, there are many board members, yet all of the Circle of Champions members whom I could learn the identities of were SMU graduates. Therefore, the most important factor is not Turner, but rather their preexisting relationship with SMU.

[SMU89]

THE TURNER YEARS (Note: this is only for timeframe up to 4/08)

Fundraising

SMU announced a $300 million fundraising campaign in 1997. Five years later, it had raised $542 million. The funds provided for, among other things, 14 new or renovated buildings, 96 new endowments for academic programs or positions, and 171 new student scholarships and awards.

The endowment totaled more than $1.3 billion in June, according to The Chronicle of Higher Education, making it the 54th-largest in the country. That's up from $911 million in 1999-2000, when it also ranked 54th.

Buildings

New facilities since 1995 include the Fondren Library Center, Meadows Museum, Gerald J. Ford Stadium, Paul B. Loyd Jr. All-Sports Center, Dedman Life Sciences Building and Jerry R. Junkins Engineering Building, plus other academic buildings, athletic facilities, parking garages and fraternity houses.

Renovated buildings include Perkins Chapel, the Dedman Center for Lifetime Sports, Fondren Science Building and 11 dormitories.

Campus expansion

The main campus has grown from 60 buildings to 76, and from 176 acres to 210 acres. Recent acquisitions include the old Mrs Baird's bakery site, the former site of University Gardens condominiums (the subject of an ongoing lawsuit), Park Cities Plaza and several properties east of Central Expressway. SMU has also opened a campus in Plano.

Academics

The average SAT score of entering freshmen is up nearly 80 points in the last eight years, to 1230 out of a possible 1600. (SMU still lags behind schools it aspires to compete with, such as Emory, where SATs are 1300-1470 for the middle half of students, and Vanderbilt, with middle-range SATs of 1300-1480.)

The number of freshman applications at SMU more than doubled in eight years, reaching nearly 9,000 for a class of 1,350 in fall 2008. The school added new endowed academic positions in engineering, biology, English and other fields (beyond those funded by the capital campaign).

It added new Ph.D. programs in history, chemistry, civil engineering, English and education, for a total of 25 fields offering doctorates.

The Dedman School of Law added clinics for taxpayers and child advocacy to serve the community.