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East Coast Mustang wrote:Maybe a long shot, but if we go 8-4 this year and finish second or third in the AAC and win a bowl game (9 wins), does everyone shutup about JJ for awhile?

More like delusional than a long shot.

blackoutpony wrote:

East Coast Mustang wrote:Maybe a long shot, but if we go 8-4 this year and finish second or third in the AAC and win a bowl game (9 wins), does everyone shutup about JJ for awhile?

If we win 9 games I promise to shut up for a little while. That being said, I give us <1% chance to win 9 games so I'm not overly worried.

A

I'm not one of the Top 50 posters trying to run him out of town by criticizing his Coaching. My criticism has gone directly to deficiencies in his program from Day 1. I've said repeatedly the guy can coach. Coaching plus the deficiencies in the program like recruiting get him to about 7 games under .500 and only about 3 games above .500 against Division 1A schools in last 5 years. This year it will likely get him to 5-7 maybe 6-6 because the bottom half of the AAC is putrid. Since he's been here Tulsa(multiple), Southern Miss, UH, UCF have all had dream seasons far better than anything June Jones has done. I simply reject the premise that the SMU job handed to him was so difficult that we shouldn't expect to beat the Tulane, Memphis, UTEP, Rice, UAB and other victories on his ledger. Its ridiculously uninformed to compare the resources given to June Jones to our prior coaches

That sounds exactly right.

malonish wrote:If we win 9 games I will eat some gross Hawaiian delicacy and post videos of my shame. Possibly poi.

You are squirming around so much and have that green shade to you I suspect you ate the Poi and more...

To be fair to the other coaches they had restrictions that June did not have. So let's not look down on those guys who did the best they could have under those restrictive circumstances. Also, Hawaii did not get that great of recruits. They just had weaker competition in the WAC. It seems Jones offenses have not been as productive as he thought but it has been the defense that really won a lot of those games. As far as recruits staying home the USF coach seems to be doing a good job of keeping kids at home. Glad the basketball staff did not have that defeatist attitude towards trying to keep Mudiay and Frazier at home. Just sayin'.

HarvCrimYaleBlue wrote: I accept the fact that I am likely to get roasted/reamed/etc for this, but we need to give Jones a little credit. I am a 2001 undergrad and have seen the ‘best’ SMU team under Jones. My years of viewership and fandom say that Jones has brought SMU from COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY TERRIBLE to DECENT. I know that is not saying a whole lot but it is much better then where SMU was prior.
...

Just like everyone else, I want SMU to be big-time and play to the level of our cross town rival. All I am saying is that it could be MUCH, MUCH WORSE. And MUCH, MUCH WORSE is all I know.

My problem is this - everyone tends to overestimate the gap between where we were and where we are now. We were not "COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY TERRIBLE", we were below average. Here is the data with FCS opponents removed. Cavan won 4.2 games per year, Bennett won 2.8, and Jones is winning 5.4. He has taken advantage of the permanent 12 game season to get us a "free" win against teams that are not competing on a level playing field scholarship-wise. With all of the hurdles that have been removed for him and the huge paychecks, he took us from "below average" to "average" within a couple of years, but has not shown improvement since. Now if we win 9 games this year I don't know if my aging heart could take it.

Coach: Mike Cavan 4.2 - 6.8

1997: 6-5-0
1998: 5-7-0
1999: 3-6-0
2000: 3-9-0
2001: 4-7-0

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Coach: Phil Bennett 2.8 - 8.7

2002: 3-9-0
2003: 0-12-0
2004: 3-8-0
2005: 5-6-0
2006: 5-6-0
2007: 1-11-0

-----
Coach: June Jones 5.4 - 6.8

2008: 0-11-0
2009: 7-5-0
2010: 7-7-0
2011: 7-5-0
2012: 6-6-0

smumustang1980 wrote:

malonish wrote:If we win 9 games I will eat some gross Hawaiian delicacy and post videos of my shame. Possibly poi.

You are squirming around so much and have that green shade to you I suspect you ate the Poi and more...

I believe you have me at a disadvantage. You probably know me and know I can't sit still.
<- poi face

Edit: You may have just meant the frog...

I graduated in 81 and am ready to have someone take us up to the level we were during the Pony Express Days!!

AusTxPony wrote: The bigger problem for our conference situation is the inability for anyone to have come up with the idea that will win the Hearts and Minds of Dallas and our pathetic, passive alumni. Our lack of attendance at Sporting Events is the albatross around our necks. I look forward to seeing if LB can throw that monkey off our backs in Bball. Let's attack and solve that problem and quit banging our heads against the computer screen over JJ.

I think our problem with football, and academically, is that SMU doesn't branch out. I am originally from Denton and am attending SMU for graduate school. Even though I applied for undergrad, I never really knew much about SMU when I applied. The school doesn't recruit well for football or undergrad. While it has probably improved dramatically, their is still room for improvement.

While all the examples AusTxPony included are true, I think one way for SMU to make its' football program and University more recognizable is by hosting summer football camps. Maybe we can focus on defensive and offensive line camps. If this becomes the premier camp all defensive and offensive line men want to attend during the summer to get recognized for college, maybe it could help us get better recruits.

SMU did have its earliest camp this year and promptly got 3 of its better commitments-the kids from Houston Lamar. That had been a long time criticism of June Jones. Those reading the recruiting reports know there were some WTF recruiting stories from both recruiting services citing the failure of the Coaching staff to follow up on some of the top players in Texas- from the top programs in Texas-who attended that camp too. BTW "summer camps" have turned into February/March camps as of several years ago-June finally figured that out

Stallion wrote:SMU did have its earliest camp this year and promptly got 3 of its better commitments-the kids from Houston Lamar. That had been a long time criticism of June Jones. Those reading the recruiting reports know there were some WTF recruiting stories from both recruiting services citing the failure of the Coaching staff to follow up on some of the top players in Texas- from the top programs in Texas-who attended that camp too. BTW "summer camps" have turned into February/March camps as of several years ago-June finally figured that out

Talked to Zach Allen's (RS QB at TCU) parents yesterday... They said Zach was really interested in SMU because his uncle was an alum. He attended one of Jones camps and cut camp a day short to go to the Elite 11 camp and after doing that never got another call from June AND called June himself and never received a call back.

The problem with we used to be so bad and now we are average argument is that it does not take into consideration the changing landscape of college football. People look at a 7 win SMU team and say, wow, look how far we came, but look who those wins are against. Since June took over, a seven win season means, one out conference win, wins against rice, Tulane, UTEP, Memphis, and maybe a surprise win against Houston or Tulsa that gets us to 6 or 7 wins and then a bowl win against a team that could care less about being at said bowl. We are beating some of the worst teams in division one. When you consider that Bennett, Rossley, and Cavan were able to win 5 or 6 games with the recruiting restrictions they had and harder completion..and then the fact that while great guys....none of them where head coach material....Cavan is selling season tickets for Georgia....and Cavan and Rossley ar e career coordinators

agreed Dwan.

I posted last fall that the average Sagarin ranking for the teams JJ has defeated was #108. I doubt that number has changed much since then.

Here are the teams currently ranked between 100-116, or the 'typical' SMU victory over the past 6 years under JJ.

NTSU, Wake Forest, Air Force, Sam Houston St, Troy, Western Kentucky, Southern Illinois, Wofford, Colorado State, UAB, McNeese State, Kent State, Central Arkansas, Hawaii, Villanova, William & Mary, Buffalo. And we wonder why there is no fan momentum at SMU.

Oh, and Montana State is currently ranked #96, which means they represent an above average victory for JJ.

Trivia Question -

What do Villanova, William and Mary, Stoney Brook and RIchmond all have in common?

Answer -

Besides being D2a, all of the above mentioned teams are currently ranked higher than Temple, Memphis and South Florida.

6-6 baby here we come!!!

Dwan wrote:The problem with we used to be so bad and now we are average argument is that it does not take into consideration the changing landscape of college football. People look at a 7 win SMU team and say, wow, look how far we came, but look who those wins are against. Since June took over, a seven win season means, one out conference win, wins against rice, Tulane, UTEP, Memphis, and maybe a surprise win against Houston or Tulsa that gets us to 6 or 7 wins and then a bowl win against a team that could care less about being at said bowl. We are beating some of the worst teams in division one. When you consider that Bennett, Rossley, and Cavan were able to win 5 or 6 games with the recruiting restrictions they had and harder completion..and then the fact that while great guys....none of them where head coach material....Cavan is selling season tickets for Georgia....and Cavan and Rossley ar e career coordinators

This has been my main argument dwan. We eek out 6 wins against an absolute embarrassment of teams. We have only a couple "quality" wins during June's entire tenure, and have gotten destroyed in the majority of our games against decent competition. I don't think reaching 6 wins against some of these teams we are beating really means much of anything. Lets do something against a decent big 12 team like Baylor or tech for once.