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Blunt Pony wrote:

CA Mustang wrote:

Blunt Pony wrote:Does firing Tubbs for his record, lack of quality recruits, and poor selling of this program help Jimmy Tubbs in any way? I believe that these three flaws are what got him fired, but how does saying that enhance Tubbs' chances of a coaching career in the future?

What's worse, those three reasons or the reasons given by Copeland? Which would you rather have attached to your name?

If the three reasons stated above were the actual reasons, then as much (if not more fault) lay with SMU than Tubbs.
Record - What could have been reasonably expected in only two seasons?
Recruits - Again, what could have been reasonably expected in only two seasons? No one walks into a losing a program and produces top 10 recruiting classes in less than two years.
Selling - SMU knew they weren't hiring an experienced coach, so why blame the guy for not being experienced? If you want a salesman, hire a salesman!

Oh, and to answer your question, I would rather have a burgers and cheer story to explain my demise than a questioning of my coaching and recruiting ability. In case you have not noticed, scandals rarely prevent a coach from finding a job. Lack of ability however can be a career killer.

Tubbs recruiting ability can't be questioned since he was responsible for bringing in our best players in his 12 years as an assistant coach and 2 as head coach. You can't question someones coaching ability either after only 2 years unless he had inherited a winning program and ran it into the ground which certainly wasn't the case. Those facts led Copeland and Max to choose option C) Burgers and Cheer.

This is getting tiresome. Since the people who know the true story including Tubbs, Copeland, the SMU administration and the NCAA are not talking and probably never will, can't we put this to bed and move on. Whatever happened and whoever is at fault is simply not relevant to our basketball future, which at the moment looks very bright.

Getting tired of hearing that SMU is gutless?

angryfan04 wrote:Getting tired of hearing that SMU is gutless?

Well, if you have documented facts to prove that, let's see them. Otherwise, move on.

Blunt Pony wrote:Outside of record, Doh has done the latter in less than a year.

Well, the record is pretty big part of the equation. After all, they do keep track of wins and losses.

Blunt Pony wrote:Not top 10 recruits (never said that was an expectation) but top quality recruits...

Top? The 2007 class looks nice, but is it so good other schools are scared? Do you think the 2008 class is "top quality"?

Blunt Pony wrote:You guys that [deleted] about how this went down are the same guys that complain that we do not act like a big time program acts.

Nice assumption, but you are wrong.

Blunt Pony wrote: Big time programs are not always warm and cuddly, they run like a business...

Is SMU MBB a business? If so, what's been the state of the business the past 14 seasons?

Blunt Pony wrote:I would rather have a burgers and cheer story to explain my demise than a questioning of my coaching and recruiting ability. In case you have not noticed, scandals rarely prevent a coach from finding a job. Lack of ability however can be a career killer.

Oh really? Where is Jim O'Brien coaching this year? What's Jan Van Brenda Koff up to these days? Which school has hired Dave Bliss?

CA Mustang wrote:

Blunt Pony wrote:I would rather have a burgers and cheer story to explain my demise than a questioning of my coaching and recruiting ability. In case you have not noticed, scandals rarely prevent a coach from finding a job. Lack of ability however can be a career killer.

Oh really? Where is Jim O'Brien coaching this year? What's Jan Van Brenda Koff up to these days? Which school has hired Dave Bliss?

In fairness didn't Bliss try and cover up a murder on his team? Didn't SMU release him from his contract for recruiting iffies and he landed on his feet.

The fear at the time of Tubbs firing which was handled so very badly was that no decent coach would come to SMU, if after 2 years you get fired. Since Mr. Doherty accepted the job that fear was unfounded. So, the next issue is whether the firing was a ruse of some sort for NCAA violations or were there really NCAA violations. Since SMU, Tubbs and the NCAA aren't talking, we won't know what the alleged violations were. So, at this point, I guess the best thing for all parties is to just let this get behind us. We have a decent replacement for Tubbs who will stay here for awhile unless he gets offered a better job. When we see things like the Billy Gillespie saga, this whole scenario is Exhibit A why college coaches have no loyalty to their employers anymore.

jtstang wrote:

ALEX LIFESON wrote: Tubbs is not taking this lying down

Jimmy Tubbs does not have anyone to blame but HIMSELF. He couldn't do the job and he didn't do the job. He's a spare. Get over it.

Stlhockeyguy02 wrote:

CA Mustang wrote:

Blunt Pony wrote:I would rather have a burgers and cheer story to explain my demise than a questioning of my coaching and recruiting ability. In case you have not noticed, scandals rarely prevent a coach from finding a job. Lack of ability however can be a career killer.

Oh really? Where is Jim O'Brien coaching this year? What's Jan Van Brenda Koff up to these days? Which school has hired Dave Bliss?

In fairness didn't Bliss try and cover up a murder on his team?

Yes, that was one of his misdeeds.

Stlhockeyguy02 wrote:Didn't SMU release him from his contract for recruiting iffies and he landed on his feet.

I am not sure about that. Didn't he go to to UNM when the Pye-led restrictions significantly limited his recruiting ability?

EastStang wrote:Since SMU, Tubbs and the NCAA aren't talking, we won't know what the alleged violations were.

According to the article, Tubbs' lawyer wants to clear his client's name. The only way that can be done is if he states what his client did (or did not) do on the record and proves that other parties lied.

EastStang wrote: We have a decent replacement for Tubbs who will stay here for awhile unless he gets offered a better job. When we see things like the Billy Gillespie saga, this whole scenario is Exhibit A why college coaches have no loyalty to their employers anymore.

Isn't that what Gillespie did, took a better offer? Also, don't forget that our current coach ditched his former school after only 1 year for our better offer. I'm not knocking the man and I'm very glad he's here, just pointing out the facts.

CA Mustang wrote:Top? The 2007 class looks nice, but is it so good other schools are scared? Do you think the 2008 class is "top quality"?

I'm going to be honest, after substantial research, I'm pretty disappointed w/the 08 class. Most analysts on the west coast feel Dubois is a reach, and most haven't seen, and many have never even heard of Haynes. Chris Clarke has requisite size but did nothing on the summer circuit. I'm not bad-mouthing these kids before setting foot on the Hilltop, but I was hoping for at least one difference-maker in this class.

The 07 class will be a great stepping stone, but we still need some big timers if we're going to compete w/Memphis and some of the other up'n'comers in CUSA.

DickerJames wrote:

EastStang wrote: We have a decent replacement for Tubbs who will stay here for awhile unless he gets offered a better job. When we see things like the Billy Gillespie saga, this whole scenario is Exhibit A why college coaches have no loyalty to their employers anymore.

Isn't that what Gillespie did, took a better offer? Also, don't forget that our current coach ditched his former school after only 1 year for our better offer. I'm not knocking the man and I'm very glad he's here, just pointing out the facts.

That's what I was saying, is that because schools trump up reasons to fire coaches for non-performance, successful coaches jump from school to school for the highest pay check. Because they know after a bad season or two they're out on the street.

EastStang wrote:

DickerJames wrote:

EastStang wrote: We have a decent replacement for Tubbs who will stay here for awhile unless he gets offered a better job. When we see things like the Billy Gillespie saga, this whole scenario is Exhibit A why college coaches have no loyalty to their employers anymore.

Isn't that what Gillespie did, took a better offer? Also, don't forget that our current coach ditched his former school after only 1 year for our better offer. I'm not knocking the man and I'm very glad he's here, just pointing out the facts.

That's what I was saying, is that because schools trump up reasons to fire coaches for non-performance, successful coaches jump from school to school for the highest pay check. Because they know after a bad season or two they're out on the street.

Sorry I misunderstood your point, I thought you were knocking Gillespie's move to Kentucky.