Rallying Point:The Laura Bush School of Education

perunapower · Post by **perunapower** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:41 am

The fact that they just hired a new dean for the department shows they are interested in making it grow. Dr. Chard was assistant dean at Oregon.

PonySoprano · Post by **PonySoprano** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:06 am

PK wrote:SMU does not have an "Education Major", but does have an education program that leads to the ability to become a teacher. Just go back and read the whole item I linked above.

We do not offer an undergraduate education major, so what Coach said in is press conference is correct. Right now, if someone at SMU wants to major in education - they can't - they have to take another course of study (a course of study that they will perceive as much more difficult) and then take the certification exams.

TCU does offer a Bachelor of Science in Education and you can major in Early Childhood Education, Middle/Secondary School Education in various academic fields (eg, Math, Social Studies, English, Math, Science), or Special Education. That is much different than offering a path to teacher ceritfication or graduate studies in education which is what we are doing.

TCU also has a Department of Kinesiology where they offer majors in Physical Education, Movement Science, Health and Fitness, Psychosocial Kinesiology, and Athletic Training.

You think we are at a disadvantage?

PK · Post by PK » Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:12 am

jtstang wrote:
PK wrote:The fact is that SMU does have a program in place now by which an SMU student athlete who wants to become a teacher in order to be eligible to coach in a school district can do so. It is also a fact that this is a fairly recent program, but it is still interesting that the AD and coaches do not seem to know about it. Regardless, you can scratch that problem off your list and lets work on the remaining real problems such as accepting transfer hours and making our admission policies for athletes in line with other schools we compete against.

Bennett and Orsiini were talking about cirriculum yesterday, an undergraduate degree in education, not a teacher certification program. You can get certified, but if you have to major in nuclear physics to do it a lot of athletes aren't going to be interested.

Hell I wouldn't either. Look, the preceived reason for having an education major was not because it is an easy major, because it isn't, but because many athletes want to become coaches in high schools which requires being a teacher. Most of the coaches in my schools were History teachers. There are plenty of majors in liberal arts that don't require nuclear physics. If you need easy majors, then you are talking basket weaving and not education.

An athlete can become a teacher through the programs SMU has. Now if we still need a PE major, then we need to get one, but a PE major by itself will not qualify you to be a teacher.

Dukie · Post by **Dukie** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:20 am

Pony94 wrote:ARk State 45-31 - We competed and it should have been closer than the score shows

I like to think that I am rational and level-headed and have reasonable expectations. I even manage somehow to continue following and loving I-A football despite my teams being SMU and Duke. But rationalizing that SOUTHERN METHODIST UNIVERSITY "competed" with something called Arkansas State? That S.M.U.'s loss to Arkansas State "should have" been by fewer points?

Dear God.

Pony94 · Post by **Pony94** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:24 am

Dukie wrote:
Pony94 wrote:ARk State 45-31 - We competed and it should have been closer than the score shows

I like to think that I am rational and level-headed and have reasonable expectations. I even manage somehow to continue following and loving I-A football despite my teams being SMU and Duke. But rationalizing that SOUTHERN METHODIST UNIVERSITY "competed" with something called Arkansas State? That S.M.U.'s loss to Arkansas State "should have" been by fewer points?

Dear God.

Yes, that is right. I was not saying that any of this was acceptable, only that the "model" is not our only problem. I certainly do not hope only to compete with Ark State, we can and should do better. For those that were actually at the Ark State game, I am sure they would agree it was a game we should have done better. You don't like that statment, that is fine with me.

PK · Post by PK » Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:26 am

PonySoprano wrote:
PK wrote:SMU does not have an "Education Major", but does have an education program that leads to the ability to become a teacher. Just go back and read the whole item I linked above.

We do not offer an undergraduate education major, so what Coach said in is press conference is correct. Right now, if someone at SMU wants to major in education - they can't - they have to take another course of study (a course of study that they will perceive as much more difficult) and then take the certification exams.

Go to the link I provided and look at the list of required course for the under graduate program starting in their junior year. These are all education courses. SMU did shut down their education department at one time...probably no one wanted to pay 20,000 a year to become a low paid teacher. Evidently, because of OUR need for the student athletes, they are bringing the program back, but you don't do it over night. An athlete at SMU can pursue a path to becoming a teacher...at SMU without studing nuclear physics. PE courses are available in the post graduate program which fits right in with a fifth year senior. The coaches have some tools here now, they just need to explain it correctly. I would guess that at some point when the demand is there, the current program will be upgraded to an education major again.

jtstang · Post by **jtstang** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:14 am

PK, both Bennett and Orsini wee talking about and education major. SMU does not have that. Therefore Orsini and Bennett were right. Nobody ever said you could not become a teacher with an SMU degree. Anybody can get a teaching certificate which is issued after a state-administered exam, no mater what they majored in. What they were talking about yesterday to the press was an undergraduate degree program in education. I read your link--SMU does not have one, just like they told the press yesterday.

If a guy wants to major in education in order to coach rather than history, WE ARE AT A DISADVANTAGE.

FWMustangGirl · Post by **FWMustangGirl** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:27 am

Stallion wrote:I've had to live with uniformed, naive SMU fans for 10 years spout this crap and I've had enough.

I resent that remark. I've been an SMU fan for a long time and I never knew there was a uniform.

mrydel · Post by **mrydel** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:36 am

FWMustangGirl wrote:
Stallion wrote:I've had to live with uniformed, naive SMU fans for 10 years spout this crap and I've had enough.

I resent that remark. I've been an SMU fan for a long time and I never knew there was a uniform.

Apparently you also have not lived with Stallion. :wink:

SMUer · Post by **SMUer** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:22 pm

jtstang wrote:PK, both Bennett and Orsini wee talking about and education major. SMU does not have that. Therefore Orsini and Bennett were right. Nobody ever said you could not become a teacher with an SMU degree. Anybody can get a teaching certificate which is issued after a state-administered exam, no mater what they majored in. What they were talking about yesterday to the press was an undergraduate degree program in education. I read your link--SMU does not have one, just like they told the press yesterday.

If a guy wants to major in education in order to coach rather than history, WE ARE AT A DISADVANTAGE.

If SMU offers graduate education level courses to undergraduates who are interested in education and graduate level educational courses for students if they choose to go on, how is that a disadvantage? A BA in EDU means diddly-squat as far as job opportunites, it's on par wiht any other liberal arts major as far as earning a student a job in education. the only thing that matters is getting your cert. All an EDU major would allow a student to do is be exposed to material they will be expected to know on their cert. exams. SMU already has a program in place that allows students to take high level courses at a brand new facility and to gain the classroom experience necessary to excell on their exams. I would argue that based on the facilities and the graduate level material they are exposed to (an an excellent staff, I know some of them), SMU students wanting to become teachers probably enjoy a distinct advantage over other schools. It really should be an easy sell.

Nacho · Post by **Nacho** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:27 pm

PE is a more important major for athletics than education.

SMUer · Post by **SMUer** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:29 pm

If you can't sell a brand new building that says SMU School of Education and Human Development and a detailed curriculum designed to uniquely expose students to high level educational material to a recruit who is interested in education...phew...maybe you shouldn't be recruiting at all. That seems like a slam dunk compared to convincing a recruit that SMU can be a good bet for future success. That'd be the question I'd sweat!

PK · Post by PK » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:38 pm

Nacho wrote:PE is a more important major for athletics than education.

Every coach except maybe the head coach at a high school has to teach some course. I have never seen a PE teacher coach a varsity team.

SMUer · Post by **SMUer** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:41 pm

For the top four majors that college football athletes choose, SMU offers three. SMU has a wonderful and very well respected CCPA (Communications) department, offers both BA and BS degrees in Sociology, offers both an undergrad and graduate track for gaining your cert/masters in all levels of Education, including the illustrious PE. SMU does not offer Sports Managment however, and that would be something I'd like the university to consider. Damn this is easy, can I recruit? Who do I call about that?

jtstang · Post by **jtstang** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:42 pm

Bennett alluded to the fact that he has encountered recruits who wanted to major in education yesterday, but SMU was not able to offer that major to them. Do you think he was lying? The guy just lost his gig. There was no reason for him to hold back on the truth at that press conference. And if he was not lying, and those recruits went to a school with an education major, then we are at a disadvantage.