Memo to SMU men's hoops: Drop the act against the DISD

jtstang · Post by **jtstang** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:33 pm

EastStang wrote:1. We're a mid-major. We are not in a marquee conference for basketball.

That would make Memphis one f'ing good mid-major program.

papawasamustang · Post by **papawasamustang** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:35 pm

George S. Patton wrote:LOOK AT THE ROSTER.

How many Dallas kids? None
How many So. Dallas County kids? None
How many Dallas County kids at all? None

Stands out like a sore thumb.

I said it in the original post. Most coaches will pledge to tie up the borders because they know that's the best way to lay a foundation.

Excuse the Minnesota connection, but Tubby Smith made that a priority. Go to the Rivals page on Gopher hoops and look as their most recent class. He got the big ones in that state to stay including a 5-star.

The Gophers were getting killed by Wisconsin for the top talent in MSP. That trend is changing.

Again, it goes back to the results. Doherty and Co. have not done a good job in this area. For the program to be successful, there has to be a local base. As far as I can tell, we have jack.

BTW Icon, nice sourball attitude to automatically think the next one will fail in Dallas.

Interesting that Rhonda has 12 of her 14 players from Texas.

MustangIcon · Post by **MustangIcon** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:39 pm

Some of the talent we have brought in under Doherty is far more sought after than any we have brought in since maybe as far back as 1999 (again aside from Bhop).

Dia- offers from OU and Louisville
McCoy- offers from Kentucky, Virgina, Wash St. and others
Harp- offers from Stanford, Wake Forest, Texas Tech & others

If you are to look at scholarship offers of incoming players, those 3 guys would be ranked as the #2, 3, and 4 SMU signees over the last decade. None of them from Dallas (although you can argue that Harp played AAU in Dallas). If you want to wonder why two of those guys have not met expectations, i understand. But to point at a lack of recruiting from "inside out" as the reason we stink is flawed in my opinion.

MustangIcon · Post by **MustangIcon** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:43 pm

George S. Patton wrote:BTW Icon, nice sourball attitude to automatically think the next one will fail in Dallas.

By ditching Doherty after this year, as some are suggesting, I do think the next person would be set-up to fail just as badly in Dallas recruiting as we have over the past decade.

We must change in the perception of our hoops program to bring in top local talent. Until then, lets get the best players we can get our hands on and stop worrying about their ISD or zip code.

George S. Patton · Post by **George S. Patton** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:51 pm

MustangIcon wrote:Some of the talent we have brought in under Doherty is far more sought after than any we have brought in since maybe as far back as 1999 (again aside from Bhop).

Dia- offers from OU and Louisville
McCoy- offers from Kentucky, Virgina, Wash St. and others
Harp- offers from Stanford, Wake Forest, Texas Tech & others

If you are to look at scholarship offers of incoming players, those 3 guys would be ranked as the #2, 3, and 4 SMU signees over the last decade. None of them from Dallas (although you can argue that Harp played AAU in Dallas). If you want to wonder why two of those guys have not met expectations, i understand. But to point at a lack of recruiting from "inside out" as the reason we stink is flawed in my opinion.

Icon, you can do both. But if you don't make a presence in your backyard, then you're going to pay for it.

Look at Jim Christian at TCU. Of his newcomers, one is from Fort Worth proper -- not FWISD but at least he has kid from FW on his roster for God's sake -- and he also grabbed kid from Duncanville.

Nice, Doherty's has 3 years to consort with the Duncanville folks and can't get a kid. Christian's here less than a year and already has one.

None of know how these careers will turn out, but at least TCU stepped up to the plate.

papawasamustang · Post by **papawasamustang** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:53 pm

MustangIcon wrote:Some of the talent we have brought in under Doherty is far more sought after than any we have brought in since maybe as far back as 1999 (again aside from Bhop).

Dia- offers from OU and Louisville
McCoy- offers from Kentucky, Virgina, Wash St. and others
Harp- offers from Stanford, Wake Forest, Texas Tech & others

If you are to look at scholarship offers of incoming players, those 3 guys would be ranked as the #2, 3, and 4 SMU signees over the last decade. None of them from Dallas (although you can argue that Harp played AAU in Dallas). If you want to wonder why two of those guys have not met expectations, i understand. But to point at a lack of recruiting from "inside out" as the reason we stink is flawed in my opinion.

I like your opinion but I'll think I have to agree with Gillispie's take on things.

Gillispie's 2004 pledge to recruit Texas ├â┬ó├óΓÇÜ┬¼" home of three of the nation's nine largest cities ├â┬ó├óΓÇÜ┬¼" in hunting down talent has paid big dividends for the Aggies, who are vying for their first Big 12 title.

"It's very difficult to go outside your state," Gillispie said. "You've got to become nationally prominent year after year to beat someone on their home players. You have to try and stay as close to your campus as possible.

"We would all be making a big mistake if we didn't start close to home."

papawasamustang · Post by **papawasamustang** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:55 pm

George S. Patton wrote:
MustangIcon wrote:Some of the talent we have brought in under Doherty is far more sought after than any we have brought in since maybe as far back as 1999 (again aside from Bhop).

Dia- offers from OU and Louisville
McCoy- offers from Kentucky, Virgina, Wash St. and others
Harp- offers from Stanford, Wake Forest, Texas Tech & others

If you are to look at scholarship offers of incoming players, those 3 guys would be ranked as the #2, 3, and 4 SMU signees over the last decade. None of them from Dallas (although you can argue that Harp played AAU in Dallas). If you want to wonder why two of those guys have not met expectations, i understand. But to point at a lack of recruiting from "inside out" as the reason we stink is flawed in my opinion.

Icon, you can do both. But if you don't make a presence in your backyard, then you're going to pay for it.

Look at Jim Christian at TCU. Of his newcomers, one is from Fort Worth proper -- not FWISD but at least he has kid from FW on his roster for God's sake -- and he also grabbed kid from Duncanville.

Nice, Doherty's has 3 years to consort with the Duncanville folks and can't get a kid. Christian's here less than a year and already has one.

None of know how these careers will turn out, but at least TCU stepped up to the plate.

Don't forget the toads went right down the road to Weatherford JC to snag a really good JC recruit.

MustangIcon · Post by **MustangIcon** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:01 pm

GSP,

I am not familiar at all with TCU's roster or recruiting, although it does appear that Christian is doing a great job there so far. Are either of these kids doing anything there? Were either a "get" for TCU when they signed them?

I guess my question is if you saw Player A and Player B. Player A having similar offers as any one of the three I mentioned a moment ago but was from somewhere outside of Texas and Player B having lesser offers but being from inner city Dallas, are you an advocate for us going after Player B over Player A?

MustangIcon · Post by **MustangIcon** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:06 pm

papawasamustang wrote:I like your opinion but I'll think I have to agree with Gillispie's take on things.

Gillispie's 2004 pledge to recruit Texas ├â┬ó├óΓÇÜ┬¼" home of three of the nation's nine largest cities ├â┬ó├óΓÇÜ┬¼" in hunting down talent has paid big dividends for the Aggies, who are vying for their first Big 12 title.

"It's very difficult to go outside your state," Gillispie said. "You've got to become nationally prominent year after year to beat someone on their home players. You have to try and stay as close to your campus as possible.

"We would all be making a big mistake if we didn't start close to home."

I agree with him as well. And I am fairly certain that all SMU coaches started close to home and desperately wanted/want to recruit local Dallas talent, but it hasn't turned out to be so easy in the last decade. Since 1999 we haven't recruited much Dallas talent. That encompasses Dement, Tubbs, and now Doherty. What makes you so sure that the next coach will be able to and it isn't greater than the coach himself? ie the perception of SMU as a whole in local circles.

George S. Patton · Post by **George S. Patton** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:13 pm

MustangIcon wrote:
papawasamustang wrote:I like your opinion but I'll think I have to agree with Gillispie's take on things.

Gillispie's 2004 pledge to recruit Texas ├â┬ó├óΓÇÜ┬¼" home of three of the nation's nine largest cities ├â┬ó├óΓÇÜ┬¼" in hunting down talent has paid big dividends for the Aggies, who are vying for their first Big 12 title.

"It's very difficult to go outside your state," Gillispie said. "You've got to become nationally prominent year after year to beat someone on their home players. You have to try and stay as close to your campus as possible.

"We would all be making a big mistake if we didn't start close to home."

I agree with him as well. And I am fairly certain that all SMU coaches started close to home and desperately wanted/want to recruit local Dallas talent, but it hasn't turned out to be so easy in the last decade. Since 1999 we haven't recruited much Dallas talent. That encompasses Dement, Tubbs, and now Doherty. What makes you so sure that the next coach will be able to and it isn't greater than the coach himself? ie the perception of SMU as a whole in local circles.

It depends on how the message is delivered. I don't know if Doherty's East Coast personna rubs people the wrong way.

As for TCU's recruiting, do we ever know anything about any freshman and if he is going to be a "get"

We all thought Papa Dia was a "get". How is that working out for us?

MustangIcon · Post by **MustangIcon** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:21 pm

George S. Patton wrote:It depends on how the message is delivered. I don't know if Doherty's East Coast personna rubs people the wrong way.

As for TCU's recruiting, do we ever know anything about any freshman and if he is going to be a "get"

We all thought Papa Dia was a "get". How is that working out for us?

It is certainly possible that Doherty's persona might rub people the wrong way. However, our previous coach, Jimmy Tubbs, was a complete 180 from Doherty and he wasn't exactly stampeded by local talent trying to get to SMU (granted he only received 2 years, which is not enough by anyone's standard- totally different discussion though).

Peruna88 · Post by **Peruna88** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:39 pm

Three pages and nobody has mentioned how hard the DISD coaches lobbied for Tubbs to get the head coaching job. Remember that? Very hard. Then, he gets it and how many of them were able to get their kids to come to SMU.

Yeah, there's a problem, but let's not think it's all on us.

ALEX LIFESON · Post by **ALEX LIFESON** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:46 pm

[quote="Peruna88"]Three pages and nobody has mentioned how hard the DISD coaches lobbied for Tubbs to get the head coaching job. Remember that? Very hard. Then, he gets it and how many of them were able to get their kids to come to SMU.

Before he got the job, they threatened to ban DISD kids from coming to SMU. I guess they put the ban in anyway :wink:

SoCal_Pony · Post by **SoCal_Pony** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:59 pm

MustangIcon wrote:Harp- offers from Stanford, Wake Forest, Texas Tech & others .

I don't believe Harp got offers from any of those schools, although he did get one from Northwestern.

I think he was hoping for an offer from Stanford.

PonyLove · Post by **PonyLove** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:04 pm

Peruna88 wrote:
Yeah, there's a problem, but let's not think it's all on us.

Stop being rational, you'll ruin everyone's fun.