Do recruiting critics want it both ways?

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Re: Do recruiting critics want it both ways?

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NickSMU17 wrote:I am making the assumption on the amount of work the other assistants are putting in....

Did you guys know we got a new special teams coach from UCLA whose dad was a legend? How many recruits has he brought in for visits?

We better not miss a FG this year or let Kerley return the ball past the 50 or we will be wasting our cash....
None of us has any idea how much work the assistants are putting in, but it's a pretty safe assumption that June Jones didn't win as many games as he has by allowing his assistant coaches to slack off. The suggestions that some coaches are sitting around doing nothing while others do all the recruiting are silly. It's safe to assume that some have worked in vacations, but there is no doubt they all are doing their share of watching film, visiting high schools and talking to HS coaches.

And is it possible that Coach Gansz is doing something like moving his family to Dallas? The comment about wasting cash is beyond silly. Not every kicker Coach Gansz - or any other special teams coach - has had was great, and I'm pretty sure his units have given up an occasional score. But let him coach a year or two before you start threatening to write him off.
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Re: Do recruiting critics want it both ways?

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Hmmmmm.
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Re: Do recruiting critics want it both ways?

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PK wrote:Here is a thought that may have no traction, but not everyone is blessed with the same gifts in life. Perhaps some of these coaches are really great "coaches" but not so great "recruiters." Doesn't do any good to throw someone out there to recruit who can't. Perhaps their recruiting job is to evaluate player films, etc. and then let the "recruiters" go after the selected players. Perhaps not an ideal situation, but it may be the reality. Just a thought.
So you're saying Coach Jones is playing to his coaches' strengths? What a shocking approach!

Three coaches got the bulk of the recruits last year: Coach Klemm (6.5 - Conner Preston said he was recruited by Coach Klemm and Coach Morrison), Coach Mason (6) and Coach Reinebold (6). But the suggestion that the other coaches aren't pulling their weight is ludicrous. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. We don't know all of the responsibilities for each coach (i.e. the coach who works as an academic liaison between the team and the LEC has a huge, thankless job that doesn't get reported on those money-driven sites, but without the work he puts in with the LEC, some players will become ineligible), and it is absolutely right for the head coach to give more recruiting responsibility to the best recruiters.

You think Ed Orgeron is at USC because he's a great tactician for defensive linemen? No. He knows the position, being a former DL himself, but he's there because he's a raving lunatic who fires up the team on Saturdays ... and because he's a terrific recruiter. It's no accident that after Jordan Payton, the WR who committed to USC from the womb, started considering SMU, Lane Kiffin switched Orgeron over to recruit Payton the rest of the way. Recruiting is Orgeron's biggest asset to a team, and Kiffin - whacko that he is - is playing to the strengths of his staff.

Consider:
º Alabama's top three recruiters in the 2011 class appear to have been Sal Sunseri, Jim McElwain and Jeremy Pruitt, who were responsible for all but four of Bama's class, which is universally accepted as one of the nation's best. Obviously, Nick Saban is wasting money on his other assistants, right?

º At Texas Tech, someone named Robert Prunty is credited with pulling in 9.5 recruits, with 10 more coming from three other assistant coaches, so the other 8 assistant coaches pulled in just 9.5 recruits. Tommy Tuberville clearly needs to fire those 8 slackers.

º On the other hand, North Carolina traditionally recruits pretty well, and this year seemed pretty balanced; Sam Pittman is credited with landing 5.5 recruits and Troy Douglas 4.5, but six other assistant coaches got credit for at least one recruit - none more than 2.5. By the "everyone should be pulling his weight" theory, UNC should have a better class than Alabama, right?

Of course not. All of this is to say there are different approaches to recruiting. Coach Jones has had a number of very good players over the years, has sent a lot to the NFL and has won a lot of games. To get on here and suggest that he has a staff of some guys who work hard and some who don't is, at the very least, uninformed. Coaches have different strengths and therefore get assigned different tasks. It sounds like some of the people here have an axe to grind against some members of this staff who have given us our first two bowl berths in 25 years. It's tiresome to fans, and I would bet discouraging to players and recruits who read this board, too.
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Re: Do recruiting critics want it both ways?

Post by RGV Pony »

When we first started talking about this, I thought about Orgeron as well. I pulled up USC's athletes w interest and recruiting coaches, expecting to see Oregon doing all the heavy lifting much like AK is for us. However, such was not the case
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Do recruiting critics want it both ways?

Post by NickSMU17 »

Huh? Your telling me at great college football programs, they expect all the coaches to do homework And recruit. You are saying they want to build a program instead of dreaming to play in the armed forces bowl every year?

This is a revolutionary thought, maybe we should try this....where is a old example of what we should be doing???

I wonder if tcu has 1 guy carrying the load, but then again why would we even try to be like tcu. I meAn 2 bcs games constant winners for 10 years. They defn have something we don't, prob better academically, better facilities, better local talent, better location...we shouldn't try to do anything that they do...
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Re: Do recruiting critics want it both ways?

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Huh? Who said about "dreaming to play in the armed forces bowl"? (And playing in it once hardly is "every year," don't you think? Looking at the schools RRP listed, it looks like different teams do it different ways. Alabama is in BCS games just about every year, and apparently only a few do the "heavy lifting" in recruiting. Chances are, however, that their staff and ours share responsibility. One guy might be in contact with a kid, but you can bet his position coach and probably a coordinator or head coach has watched loads of film, maybe seen him in a camp and given a thumbs-up or thumbs-down on a scholarship.

On another note, what is being accomplished by calling out some of the assistant coaches on a message board? It's safe to assume that the coaches are not going to change or continue their recruiting policies based on what is said here. Are you hoping fans give up on the staff that has taken us to back-to-back bowls? Or maybe recruits? How about the alumni who we all hope will cough up for an indoor practice facility? There's nothing wrong with wanting things to get better - we all want the team to go undefeated, win championships, collect awards, etc. - but badmouthing the staff on a public forum like this seems counterproductive, don't you think?
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Do recruiting critics want it both ways?

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Worked for turner...
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Re: Do recruiting critics want it both ways?

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Roach wrote:Huh? Who said about "dreaming to play in the armed forces bowl"? (And playing in it once hardly is "every year," don't you think? Looking at the schools RRP listed, it looks like different teams do it different ways. Alabama is in BCS games just about every year, and apparently only a few do the "heavy lifting" in recruiting. Chances are, however, that their staff and ours share responsibility. One guy might our post be in contact with a kid, but you can bet his position coach and probably a coordinator or head coach has watched loads of film, maybe seen him in a camp and given a thumbs-up or thumbs-down on a scholarship.

On another note, what is being accomplished by calling out some of the assistant coaches on a message board? It's safe to assume that the coaches are not going to change or continue their recruiting policies based on what is said here. Are you hoping fans give up on the staff that has taken us to back-to-back bowls? Or maybe recruits? How about the alumni who we all hope will cough up for an indoor practice facility? There's nothing wrong with wanting things to get better - we all want the team to go undefeated, win championships, collect awards, etc. - but badmouthing the staff on a public forum like this seems counterproductive, don't you think?
Roach....was reading and skimming some of this on my iPad....your avatar got me...was about to smash the bug on the pad.
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Re: Do recruiting critics want it both ways?

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I was thinking the same thing! :lol:
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Re: Do recruiting critics want it both ways?

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At the end of the day success in college football comes from coaching football. I trust our coaching staff know enough about their system to find players that fit well and will excel in it regardless of what state they live in. Look at Norter dame, great recruiting class after great class and they still suck. I think it is absured for people to say we are not recruiting texas because we don't offer the top guys. SMU is a school that will never be in a position to get any of the top 20 prospects in the state unless some outside factor like family is in play(these guys want to play in a major conferences) but we don't need these guys to achieve our goals. To achieve our goals we need to be able to steal some good mid level guys and find guys others are ignoring that will thrive in the run and shoot. We do that and we win our conference almost every year with 10+ wins and occasional BCS runs.
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Re: Do recruiting critics want it both ways?

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At the end of the day success in college football comes from coaching football. I trust our coaching staff know enough about their system to find players that fit well and will excel in it regardless of what state they live in. Look at Norter dame, great recruiting class after great class and they still suck. I think it is absured for people to say we are not recruiting texas because we don't offer the top guys. SMU is a school that will never be in a position to get any of the top 20 prospects in the state unless some outside factor like family is in play(these guys want to play in a major conferences) but we don't need these guys to achieve our goals. To achieve our goals we need to be able to steal some good mid level guys and find guys others are ignoring that will thrive in the run and shoot. We do that and we win our conference almost every year with 10+ wins and occasional BCS runs.
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Re: Do recruiting critics want it both ways?

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Pony_Law wrote:At the end of the day success in college football comes from coaching football. I trust our coaching staff know enough about their system to find players that fit well and will excel in it regardless of what state they live in. Look at Norter dame, great recruiting class after great class and they still suck. I think it is absured for people to say we are not recruiting texas because we don't offer the top guys. SMU is a school that will never be in a position to get any of the top 20 prospects in the state unless some outside factor like family is in play(these guys want to play in a major conferences) but we don't need these guys to achieve our goals. To achieve our goals we need to be able to steal some good mid level guys and find guys others are ignoring that will thrive in the run and shoot. We do that and we win our conference almost every year with 10+ wins and occasional BCS runs.
Cop out...

TCU has competed with every school in the state except UT and won head to head battles...Did they offer anything better than what we have to offer now?
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Re: Do recruiting critics want it both ways?

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RedRiverPony wrote:So you're saying Coach Jones is playing to his coaches' strengths? What a shocking approach!

Three coaches got the bulk of the recruits last year: Coach Klemm (6.5 - Conner Preston said he was recruited by Coach Klemm and Coach Morrison), Coach Mason (6) and Coach Reinebold (6). But the suggestion that the other coaches aren't pulling their weight is ludicrous. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. We don't know all of the responsibilities for each coach (i.e. the coach who works as an academic liaison between the team and the LEC has a huge, thankless job that doesn't get reported on those money-driven sites, but without the work he puts in with the LEC, some players will become ineligible), and it is absolutely right for the head coach to give more recruiting responsibility to the best recruiters.

You think Ed Orgeron is at USC because he's a great tactician for defensive linemen? No. He knows the position, being a former DL himself, but he's there because he's a raving lunatic who fires up the team on Saturdays ... and because he's a terrific recruiter. It's no accident that after Jordan Payton, the WR who committed to USC from the womb, started considering SMU, Lane Kiffin switched Orgeron over to recruit Payton the rest of the way. Recruiting is Orgeron's biggest asset to a team, and Kiffin - whacko that he is - is playing to the strengths of his staff.

Consider:
º Alabama's top three recruiters in the 2011 class appear to have been Sal Sunseri, Jim McElwain and Jeremy Pruitt, who were responsible for all but four of Bama's class, which is universally accepted as one of the nation's best. Obviously, Nick Saban is wasting money on his other assistants, right?

º At Texas Tech, someone named Robert Prunty is credited with pulling in 9.5 recruits, with 10 more coming from three other assistant coaches, so the other 8 assistant coaches pulled in just 9.5 recruits. Tommy Tuberville clearly needs to fire those 8 slackers.

º On the other hand, North Carolina traditionally recruits pretty well, and this year seemed pretty balanced; Sam Pittman is credited with landing 5.5 recruits and Troy Douglas 4.5, but six other assistant coaches got credit for at least one recruit - none more than 2.5. By the "everyone should be pulling his weight" theory, UNC should have a better class than Alabama, right?

Of course not. All of this is to say there are different approaches to recruiting. Coach Jones has had a number of very good players over the years, has sent a lot to the NFL and has won a lot of games. To get on here and suggest that he has a staff of some guys who work hard and some who don't is, at the very least, uninformed. Coaches have different strengths and therefore get assigned different tasks. It sounds like some of the people here have an axe to grind against some members of this staff who have given us our first two bowl berths in 25 years. It's tiresome to fans, and I would bet discouraging to players and recruits who read this board, too.
Can we get a gloom and doomer response to this very solid post, please?
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Re: Do recruiting critics want it both ways?

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PonyGirl wrote:None of us has any idea how much work the assistants are putting in, but it's a pretty safe assumption that June Jones didn't win as many games as he has by allowing his assistant coaches to slack off. The suggestions that some coaches are sitting around doing nothing while others do all the recruiting are silly.
And this one?
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Re: Do recruiting critics want it both ways?

Post by Mexmustang »

You obviously have never managed a group of people--yes, we have slackers, guys that leave the state of Texas to go home before the players have towled off in the last practice of the spring.
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