Stats 2000-2013

[couch 'em]

But Couch and Smurzer you can play that game with data on both sides, can't you?

An example. I'd love to prove that JJ's been the greatest coach in the history of modern sport and so when I put the comparison with Briles together, well it turned out that Briles had clearly outperformed JJ. My temptation was to exclude JJ's first rebuilding year (2008) and then this season (2013) as outliers that didn't reflect reality, the truth as I saw it. To do so would have improved our average Sagarin in the JJ years by 20 whole points. But that wasn't fair and what you're doing isn't fair, IMO. Avoid confirmation bias and include all data.

How would you like me to revise it? I actually expected JJ's years to look much better than Bennett's based on record but it isn't the case. The similarities were a surprise to me too. I chose to look at the data thus way to try to compensate for out of conference strength which messes up the "average opponent ranking" when the OOC teams vary so much.

What stats would you consider "fair"?

[ponyboy]

Including bowl games would be a start.

[Rebel10]

Outside of the ponyboy school of thought wouldn't comparing regular seasons to regular seasons be the best way to compare regular seasons?

[smurzer]

Isn't he also winless against the academies?

Correct on winless against the academies. I like looking at these numbers as It's always interesting to see if they confirm or discount your own perceived views.

Another interesting JJ tenure compared to Bennett tenure stat on playing Texas P5 teams (That covers Tech/A&M/Baylor and I included TCU since they are P5 now and have been a good team and our most relevant local rival throughout both Bennett and JJs time)....

Bennett:
- 1-12 record against Texas P5 teams. Average margin of defeat of 23.8 points in those losses.
JJ:
- 1-12 record against Texas P5 teams. Average margin of defeat of 27.1 points in those losses

I didn't get into it, but it would be interesting to see average sagarin rating of the Texas P5 during Bennett time vs. JJ time as I think as a whole they have been better in JJs 6 years.

To me, the lack of competitiveness against the Texas P5 teams (i.e. wins that actually mean anything to casual North Texas college FB fans) and more so, the ZERO level of improvement in that area over the Bennett years (just by the raw numbers) has been the most disappointing stat line of JJs tenure.

[smurzer]

Since stats are always up for debate, I should probably add context to the above stat line to say I was interested to see how JJ has fared vs. Bennett against 4 Texas teams from bigger conferences where wins would seem to carry more weight in the minds of casual Texas FB fans than say wins over USF or La Tech.

Since there has been a lot of talk here on PF of wins over "east coast minor state" or "directional U" vs. teams that locals care about (i.e. Tech/A&M etc), I was interested to see how JJ has done vs. Bennett in those type of games.

Result. No improvement.

[ponyboy]

Just compare Bennett's Sagarin to JJ"s Sagarin. There's your baseline. You can then talk about why they may be different. One theory is that JJ was just a better coach. Another is that JJ had fewer recruiting restrictions. Etc, etc.

I say JJ is a turnaround artist and the perfect 2008 fit for SMU, but who gets bored when he knows his system has taken a team as far as that system can take it. Time for the next guy and for the next level.

See, you can say that without hate and pitchforks.

[RGV Pony]

Fair assessment ponyboy

[ponyinNC]

I say JJ is a turnaround artist and the perfect 2008 fit for SMU, but who gets bored when he knows his system has taken a team as far as that system can take it. Time for the next guy and for the next level.

See, you can say that without hate and pitchforks.

Probably the best synopsis on Jones to date...

[PonyTime]

Since stats are always up for debate, I should probably add context to the above stat line to say I was interested to see how JJ has fared vs. Bennett against 4 Texas teams from bigger conferences where wins would seem to carry more weight in the minds of casual Texas FB fans than say wins over USF or La Tech.

Since there has been a lot of talk here on PF of wins over "east coast minor state" or "directional U" vs. teams that locals care about (i.e. Tech/A&M etc), I was interested to see how JJ has done vs. Bennett in those type of games.

Result. No improvement.

Phil Bennett's team lost by 30+ on opening day to La Tech.

Put down JJ all you want - however all of this Bennett revisionist history is nonsense. Bennett is the 5th best post DP coach at SMU - and that is out of 5 head coaches.

In my opinion, Rossley was the best of them all. He had less to work with than Bennett.

[smurzer]

Put down JJ all you want - however all of this Bennett revisionist history is nonsense. Bennett is the 5th best post DP coach at SMU - and that is out of 5 head coaches.

I'm not comparing for the sake of Bennett. I just find it interesting to see no real improvement in our record over the 4 P5 Texas teams we played in JJs time here vs., as you put it, The 5th best post DP coach at SMU. Especially considering the massive increase in investment of both money and resources (i.e. admin changes) given to this current regime.

I was just disappointed when I went back and looked at that. Thought we would have improved against the Texas P5 at least a little bit. If you think it's pointless then fine. Take from it what you will. I just think its a piece to the general JJ dissatisfaction puzzle. Hence why I posted it. Thought it was interesting.

[Stallion]

quite frankly I wouldn't be surprised if Cavan maybe even Rossley in last few years was more competitive against P5 schools

[Stallion]

1997:
Mississippi -8
Arkansas +22 W

1998
Arkansas -27
Mississippi -7 took them to Overtime

1999
Arkansas -26
Kansas -18

2000
Kansas +14 W
NCSU -41

2001
NCSU -9
North Carolina -9

6 out 10 games were Wins or losses by 9 points or less

[PonyTime]

quite frankly I wouldn't be surprised if Cavan maybe even Rossley in last few years was more competitive against P5 schools

They were.

Gregg beat an SEC team (again Vandy - so take it for what it's worth)
Rossley was pretty competitive with the likes of UNC, Wisconsin, Arkansas, UCLA, A&M.
Caven beat Arkansas as well - and was a placekicker away from beating Mizzou and Ole Miss. Was competitive against NC State and UNC.

Phil Bennett was a step backwards for the SMU program. Frankly, had the JJ hire and all of the admissions changes been at the time of the Bennett hire, we would have had a far better chance of being in the Big 12.

[Stallion]

Missouri game was in Rossley's last year I believe-remember that one in Cotton Bowl

[SMU 86]

Since stats are always up for debate, I should probably add context to the above stat line to say I was interested to see how JJ has fared vs. Bennett against 4 Texas teams from bigger conferences where wins would seem to carry more weight in the minds of casual Texas FB fans than say wins over USF or La Tech.

Since there has been a lot of talk here on PF of wins over "east coast minor state" or "directional U" vs. teams that locals care about (i.e. Tech/A&M etc), I was interested to see how JJ has done vs. Bennett in those type of games.

Result. No improvement.

Phil Bennett's team lost by 30+ on opening day to La Tech.

Put down JJ all you want - however all of this Bennett revisionist history is nonsense. Bennett is the 5th best post DP coach at SMU - and that is out of 5 head coaches.

In my opinion, Rossley was the best of them all. He had less to work with than Bennett.

I don't think anyone is saying Bennett is better than JJ but I think some might be saying that he is not significantly better given he has less restraints. Just to be fair I believe JJ lost by 29 on an opening day to Rice but to his credit he did have an opening day victory against SFA.