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good point Stallion. Are we witnessing a basketball paradox with regard to The Model? "The Model" gets improved to Stallion specifications, and we see results on the football field (I'm w/ Stallion on the fact that 7,8 or more of our key contributors are a direct result to such changes). On the basketball court, however, we see quite the opposite.

So did Doh's Magnificent 7 recruiting class sabotage The Model?

I don't know about the model, but when you recruit seven in one year early in your tenure, it had better be a great class which molds perfectly to your system, or you're going to have problems down the road. Also basketball while somewhat easier to recruit (one player can change history), but I believe that basketball recruiting with AAU coaches (aka Agents), shoe company entanglements, and other seamier issues, a school with SMU's zero tolerance to NCAA violations may be forever in the soup when it comes to basketball. Gary Williams (with a National Championship) at Maryland has had to change his complete distain for AAU coaches shows how hard it can be sometimes to recruit these days. Had Vasquez not developed out of no where to become player of the year in the ACC, Williams would probably be out on the street. And that may be the difference. A coach with the talent of Gary Williams can afford to be prickly about the rules because he can develop players, a Coach like Doh, who is still a work in process on the bench and clearly a work in progress in developing players, can't and until we can find a coach who can recruit solid players and develop them into greatness, we may be at best mediocre. Or we sell our souls and get into the AAU recruiting cesspool, but even there, how do you compete with Duke, UNC,Georgetown, Villanova, DePaul, Wake Forest who have the advantage of playing in great conferences with National TV contracts and have a history of success and who are as good academically as we are, if not better. And don't point to Memphis, I suspect most of those players not only would not get into SMU, but probably would not stay eligible.

What a complete and utter train wreck this program is. Not much more I can say that hasn't already been said. The wheels are officially off...

EastStang-well said.

moodymadmen wrote:What a complete and utter train wreck this program is. Not much more I can say that hasn't already been said. The wheels are officially off...

Yet another uninformed comment from our friend Billy Clyde Gillispie.

EastStang wrote:Also basketball while somewhat easier to recruit (one player can change history), but I believe that basketball recruiting with AAU coaches (aka Agents), shoe company entanglements, and other seamier issues, a school with SMU's zero tolerance to NCAA violations may be forever in the soup when it comes to basketball. Or we sell our souls and get into the AAU recruiting cesspool, but even there, how do you compete with Duke, UNC,Georgetown, Villanova, DePaul, Wake Forest who have the advantage of playing in great conferences with National TV contracts and have a history of success and who are as good academically as we are, if not better. And don't point to Memphis, I suspect most of those players not only would not get into SMU, but probably would not stay eligible.

ES, the problem I have with your position is that it is too extreme.

SMU's Sagarin over the past 7 years is what, 220 on average???

For now, I would settle for being a Top 100 team, and I don't think we have to sell our soul to do so.

SMU's Sagarin over the past 7 years is what, 220 on average???

Sagarin is useless...look at RPI (and my guess, without running the numbers, is about 230 on average for RPI)

220, 230...what are we quibbling over here....South Dakota State?

SoCal_Pony wrote:220, 230...what are we quibbling over here....South Dakota State?

Sadly, probably so.

Its good to see Lutz get a good gig. Much better situation @ Creighton than the Midwestern job he
didn't get last summer. I'll take Omaha over Wichita Falls.
Having said that, I haven't been as impressed with Lutz as some. Can't argue that he wasn't a hard worker. Just not sure about his eye for talent. His prints are all over a lot of very suspect recruits round here. Not sure he had the swag to walk into a DISD and get it done.

Regarding a replacement, promote Geary. Give him a shot @ DISD, Lancaster, Duncanville, Cedar Hill, etc. Results can't be any worse. Not sure they are going to find a quality college coach this stage in the game. Maybe AAU or local/state HS ranks if they replace him @ all.

Personally, I don't see this as any major loss @ all. May turn out being a big positive.

papawasamustang wrote:Its good to see Lutz get a good gig. Much better situation @ Creighton than the Midwestern job he
didn't get last summer. I'll take Omaha over Wichita Falls.
Having said that, I haven't been as impressed with Lutz as some. Can't argue that he wasn't a hard worker. Just not sure about his eye for talent. His prints are all over a lot of very suspect recruits round here. Not sure he had the swag to walk into a DISD and get it done.

Regarding a replacement, promote Geary. Give him a shot @ DISD, Lancaster, Duncanville, Cedar Hill, etc. Results can't be any worse. Not sure they are going to find a quality college coach this stage in the game. Maybe AAU or local/state HS ranks if they replace him @ all.

Personally, I don't see this as any major loss @ all. May turn out being a big positive.

I bet Doh gets rid of the rc position, and just splits the assistants up into region, and acts as his own rc. As always, when the staff finds a quality recruit that wants SMU, Doh will come in, scout them, and turn them loose. Then we'll chase our tails late.

papawasamustang wrote:Its good to see Lutz get a good gig. Much better situation @ Creighton than the Midwestern job he
didn't get last summer.

yeah that job went to Midland College's coach. I guess D1 programs arent big on going after Juco coaches...who was the one in California who flamed out before even really getting started that Calipari says is an influence on his style of play?

Still, you'd think after what the guy did at Midland College he could get a better gig than a D2 job.

RGV Pony wrote:

papawasamustang wrote:Its good to see Lutz get a good gig. Much better situation @ Creighton than the Midwestern job he
didn't get last summer.

yeah that job went to Midland College's coach. I guess D1 programs arent big on going after Juco coaches...who was the one in California who flamed out before even really getting started that Calipari says is an influence on his style of play?

Still, you'd think after what the guy did at Midland College he could get a better gig than a D2 job.

Nationally, JUCO ball doesn't have the swagger it did 20 years ago. Quality kids look at every avenue these days before writing away two years of their life. The advent of the prep system kills the level of talent yearly, and most high end programs will only take one, possibly 2, out of 13, at any given time.

It's always interesting discussing juco around here, especially w/papawasamustang, b/c it's part of the fabric of Texas ball. Obviously, an important level to monitor w/regards to talent. That said, w/our transfer credit situation, juco is sorta tough for this program. Also, b/c of the national perception of JUCO ball as being way down, It's not surprising to me that less D1 gigs go to juco guys these days. Profile high school coaches, prep, and academy coaches may actually have a better shot, if only b/c they are stashed by grassroots organizations..see Ralph Chillious, who sent us Papa Dia etc. That's a totally different landscape then it used to be.

Somewhat missing from this dialogue is the unknown. Does anyone have a true sense of feel that Lutz may have had for the current direction of the program? Did he have a good working relationship with Doh and/or had that relationship deteriorated? Did he have a reasonable working relationship with others on the staff? Were problems building? In short, were there other influencing staff or program factors that caused him to leave? Also, the turnover of football and basketball assistant coaches is always high and an acceptable way of life. Every assistant wants to excel and give themselves the experience and opportunity to some day become a head coach. I think any criticism of Lutz in this situation is unfair and unjustified. From what I understand, he busted his butt trying to find some talent for an undistinguished program. Another opportunity arose, it facilitated his personal family situation and it extracated him from leaderless program. Das ende.

PoconoPony wrote: Does anyone have a true sense of feel that Lutz may have had for the current direction of the program? Did he have a good working relationship with Doh and/or had that relationship deteriorated? .

we need only look as far as PonyDoh's commentary, IMO:

As always, when the staff finds a quality recruit that wants SMU, Doh will come in, scout them, and turn them loose. Then we'll chase our tails late.