How We Got Where We Are Today

SMU 86 · Post by **SMU 86** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:35 am

jpe747 wrote:Yes, the JUCO. Call me prez of the Sunshine...HOWEVER, what I said I am positive I am right. You want better recruits and recruits that stay with your program no matter who is coach? The only way without cheating is WIN, WIN, WIN. The more you win, the more heads turn. Of course, putting butts in seats also helps. But, to do that you need to WIN, WIN, WIN!

I think jpe747 is more of the realistic optimists and not a blind optimist like some. Jpe747 is not saying we can get better recruits no matter what just because we are SMU. At least he is placing a future condition on how SMU will look better to a recruit in the future. I agree with him. But the only thing I would say is that usually you have to recruit better to win but also think the current staff needs to aim higher in the 2013 class also.

PonyKai · Post by **PonyKai** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:26 am

It's amusing watching people argue with facts.

goldenstang · Post by **goldenstang** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:44 am

While winning is key to getting better recruits, the most important thing is actually offering recruits.

Mitch McConnell · Post by **Mitch McConnell** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:09 am

Texas

LHS81 · Post by **LHS81** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:19 am

Texas for a start. I don't have a problem with SMU dipping into California for recruits. Just need to make sure the recruiting coach is going to stay on the job, and not up and leave for the UCLA job.

Cadillac · Post by **Cadillac** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:25 pm

I'll man up on this one. When this was blowing up last year, I was on the "Wait and see" side of things. I was in the "I don't care where the Talent comes from as long as they come" camp.

I didn't see the harm, but I certainly do now. I was totally wrong.

If nothing else, the hiring of Jason Phillips should at least let us know that they have come around on the idea of recruiting Texas. Hopefully the 2013 offers are flying out of the office lol.

-CoS

Stallion · Post by **Stallion** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:42 pm

Stlhockeyguy02 wrote:It's amusing watching people argue with facts.

Yes SMU sunshiners are impressive debaters. You tell them there is a problem for years and they argue that it ain't true and then the problem becomes fact and they argue it didn't matter anyway. This has been going on for decades with the SMU fanbase-often takes years before truth is accepted.

Cadillac · Post by **Cadillac** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:02 pm

1. Baylor- 23 Texas Offers
2. Tech- 20 Texas Offers
3. A&M- 16 Texan Offers
4. SMU - 13 TEXAS Offers
5. TCU- 4 Texan Offers
6. Houston- 1 Texan Offers

7. Texas- ?? Texas Offers (not sure why I can't find that on Rivals).

Not sure it means anything, but here are the numbers for 2013 according to Rivals.

-CoS

goldenstang · Post by **goldenstang** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:09 pm

Texas doesnt offer before junior days

Mustangsabu · Post by **Mustangsabu** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:21 pm

Stallion wrote:
Stlhockeyguy02 wrote:It's amusing watching people argue with facts.
Yes SMU sunshiners are impressive debaters. You tell them there is a problem for years and they argue that it ain't true and then the problem becomes fact and they argue it didn't matter anyway. This has been going on for decades with the SMU fanbase-often takes years before truth is accepted.

In fairness, abuse of facts on this board is far from restricted to the "sunshiners"

---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=33.219236,-97.596178

Mustangs_Maroons · Post by **Mustangs_Maroons** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:55 pm

Being a recruiter and college coach is a very unique job. Their task is to convince 17-18 year olds to commit to a scheme, philosophy, the coaches themselves AND to the university. However, it's tough to sell something that you don't believe in yourself. Try and you won't be successful. Part of the problem is that we have coaches that try to only sell part of these things. They sell their coaching schemes (ie, run'n'shoot); they sell their backgrounds, etc, but JJ and AK never tried to really sell the whole package. I suspect it's because they never saw this as a long-term job. JJ was a guy that was hired here to fix things and then move on. That is exactly how they have behaved; they have behaved in a short-term manner because that is what JJ does. We don't sell SMU to these kids. We don't sell our tradition. JJ has never bought into packaging himself with the university. That is why they showed no loyalty when there were rumors about ASU. It's very possible these coaches were already talking to our recruits about a possible move. That is why AK never had any loyalty to SMU and lied through his teeth about being committed to SMU only to jump ship a few days later.

I don't blame AK for trying to poach the recruits he talked to while at SMU, since he's technically allowed to. But I do not care for the way he turned on us after telling us he was committed to the school. If AK had sold these kids on SMU, we may lose some but we wouldn't lose all or most of them. JP believes in cougar high, which is why he's not actively poaching the recruits. AK never did and therefore feels no reservations trying to poach them.

We need coaches that believe in our school and our tradition (we really do have a rich history). How many schools can say they have had heisman trophy winners, NCs, players of the caliber of a Doak Walker or an ED? The NCAA even gives the best college running back an award after one of our very own. Do the recruits even know this? It may be a long time ago but that is what tradition is. We need stability and we need someone committed to not only his philosophy but also our school. We need someone that is proven and hungry. Until we have that, we can make progress but it will never take us to where we want (and deserve) to be. Until we have that stability, we'll always be vulnerable to losing these kids when a recruiter leaves.

I'm not happy with what JJ did. Am I convinced that he won't leave at the next best opportunity that he is presented with? Nope. If we're not convinced, can we really blame these recruits?

ojaipony · Post by **ojaipony** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:42 pm

Mustangs_Maroons wrote:Being a recruiter and college coach is a very unique job. Their task is to convince 17-18 year olds to commit to a scheme, philosophy, the coaches themselves AND to the university. However, it's tough to sell something that you don't believe in yourself. Try and you won't be successful. Part of the problem is that we have coaches that try to only sell part of these things. They sell their coaching schemes (ie, run'n'shoot); they sell their backgrounds, etc, but JJ and AK never tried to really sell the whole package. I suspect it's because they never saw this as a long-term job. JJ was a guy that was hired here to fix things and then move on. That is exactly how they have behaved; they have behaved in a short-term manner because that is what JJ does. We don't sell SMU to these kids. We don't sell our tradition. JJ has never bought into packaging himself with the university. That is why they showed no loyalty when there were rumors about ASU. It's very possible these coaches were already talking to our recruits about a possible move. That is why AK never had any loyalty to SMU and lied through his teeth about being committed to SMU only to jump ship a few days later.

I don't blame AK for trying to poach the recruits he talked to while at SMU, since he's technically allowed to. But I do not care for the way he turned on us after telling us he was committed to the school. If AK had sold these kids on SMU, we may lose some but we wouldn't lose all or most of them. JP believes in cougar high, which is why he's not actively poaching the recruits. AK never did and therefore feels no reservations trying to poach them.

We need coaches that believe in our school and our tradition (we really do have a reach history). How many school's can say they have had heisman trophy winners, NCs, players of the caliber of a Doak Walker or an ED? The NCAA even gives the best college running back an award after one of our very own. Do the recruits even know this? It may be a long time ago but that is what tradition is. We need stability and we need someone committed to not only his philosophy but also our school. We need someone that is proven and hungry. Until we have that, we can make progress but it will never take us to where we want (and deserve) to be. Until we have that stability, we'll always be vulnerable to losing these kids when a recruiter leaves.

I'm not happy with what JJ did. Am I convinced that he won't leave at the next best opportunity that he is presented with? Nope. If we're not convinced, can we really blame these recruits?

Very well said. I completely agree.

Having said that, I'm scratching my head as who our ideal HC should be. I can't think of any young, hungry, up and comers that recruits love and who might embrace SMU. Curious as to who someone like Stallion/MM/you think that could be? Personally, I like Jon Gruden but that's never going to happen.

redpony · Post by **redpony** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:49 pm

Dykes at La tech. might be a good option. I really don't know a lot about him but his results and recruiting seem to be pretty good- also good blood lines-

GO PONIES!!!

jpe747 · Post by **jpe747** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:00 am

Do I dare assume from his comments that Stallion thinks loosing is the better way to get good recruits?
First off, I grant you that we lost some good players. But, except for one or two cases, we seem to be getting players about as good to replace them. Until we are competing for four and five star players we are not going to be the kind of team that I hope we become. To do that we have to win for a number of years. BE will help, but, not if we don't win games. We had a spell of loosing for 20+ years. We are considered LOSERS by Texas kids. I know they do around my community because I've heard them laugh when SMU and football is mentioned in the same sentence. We've tried recruiting in Texas for 20+ years and we've recruited in California for several years. You've got some bad coaches getting the kind of talent we need. Why? Because of their record.

LA_Mustang · Post by **LA_Mustang** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:00 pm

jpe747 wrote:Do I dare assume from his comments that Stallion thinks loosing is the better way to get good recruits?
First off, I grant you that we lost some good players. But, except for one or two cases, we seem to be getting players about as good to replace them. Until we are competing for four and five star players we are not going to be the kind of team that I hope we become. To do that we have to win for a number of years. BE will help, but, not if we don't win games. We had a spell of loosing for 20+ years. We are considered LOSERS by Texas kids. I know they do around my community because I've heard them laugh when SMU and football is mentioned in the same sentence. We've tried recruiting in Texas for 20+ years and we've recruited in California for several years. You've got some bad coaches getting the kind of talent we need. Why? Because of their record.

Your question to Stallion make no sense to me but you saying we're replacing the decommits with equal, or near equal players to totally false. We've lost several high 3 stars, a 4 star in this class and a likely very high 4 star in next years class. The guys we are going after now are 2 stars and a couple of low 3 stars. Those are just facts. And yes, ranking recruits is an inexact science but go back and look, they are right way more than wrong.

As for the perception of SMU football, I think it has completely changed in the past few years, for the positive. I can't speak for your community but I believe a majority of area and state high school athletes look positively at what's going on at SMU. Two bowl wins in three years, joining the Big East, beat TCU this year, dominating a reputable school in Pitt this year. We need passionate recruiters selling SMU to these area kids. I believe Phillips will be a big help but I'd like two more of him. JJ deserves a lot of credit for the turnaround, it was on his watch, but he is not above criticism. And he deserves his fair share for the recruiting meltdown in the past month. I think it is kind of funny seeing him NOW travel all over the state trying salvage the class. Something he should be doing all the time, not just the last few weeks before signing day. If he decided to start devoting this much time and energy to recruiting these kids early with Phillips, imagine the upgrade in recruiting we would have.....