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recheck your research-geez. Almost all do except in Sunbelt, MAC. Some of these conferences have 9-10 bowl games. CUSA has a ridiculous 6 Bowl Games and has had 7 go recently.

wait, so we are now COMPLAINING about going to bowl games? and because we've been to 3 straight we are now less than middle of the road?

with "fans" like this, who needs enemies.

5 years ago, I would have killed to see us in a bowl game i don't care who goes and who doesn't. and this year i'll be excited if we make one.

The complaint is not 3 bowl games. the complaint is that our coach is over paid, lazy and we are not improving on the field or in recruiting.

Please spare me the Parade all American stuff...why did the two parade AA's have one BCS offer between the two of them...not to mention that BCS offer was bottom feeder Kansas.

*disclaimer* I think Dieter will be a very solid player for us, so long as June doens't turn him into a TE/H Back like he has indicated

It is funny how people love the star system of recruiting.

I hear a lot of look, we have a former 5 Star and two former 4 Stars so that shows we are improving our talent....but also, we have guys who were two stars who go on to be all conference and NFL players so who cares about the star system.

The reality is, Gilbert and Love were overrated out of high school and Reed and Beasley were underrated in high school.

We are going to go nowhere signing players who were overrated in high school much as we will go nowhere only looking for players who are underrated.

SMU_Alumni11 wrote:

Grant Carter wrote:

SMU2007 wrote:none of our recruits have any bcs offers.

That is simply not true. Your point is obviously valid, but when you make things up you end up undermining your argument. Why do that?

This doesn't just pertain to you but the board as a whole. If you say it isn't true, then state why it isn't. I think he's more right than wrong only because we have a transfer that had multiple BCS offers and a TE that had BCS offers. For the most part that's the only recruits that can say that. Hence why I said its more right than wrong.

He said "none", yet as you note there are recruits with BCS offers. That means even one recruit makes the sentence I quoted 100% not true, so it is ridiculous for you to say it is more right than wrong.

If I was disagreeing with someone's opinion or a more complicated statement I definitely would agree with you that it would be best to explain why I said he was wrong, but the only reason the quoted statement could be wrong is that some recruits do have BCS offers so I did not think it needed to be clarified.

ojaipony wrote:

sbsmith wrote:

Again, you are assuming we can't compete in the BE. What specifically can you refer to? Our last 2-3 recruiting classes competes with the top BE teams we will be facing. I think you are over-rating some of these NBE teams. I think we will be competitive from the very beginning. But what do I know. I'm an optimist which apparently you can't be on this board.

I'm only assuming we can't compete in the BE with our current effort, we can't even win C-USA but we're going to hop up and contend for a league against Louisville, Boise State, Cincinnati, and Rutgers (at a minimum) who all recruit better and develop talent better than us. You're a lot closer to overrating our team than I am to overrating their teams.

Outside of Boise (who definitely coaches up their classes consistently), I'm still waiting on a team that's heads and shoulders better than us in the new BE. Cinncy? Rutgers? Louisville? Really? I guess we'll see who's right soon enough. We will be competitive next year in the new BE with a good chance to win it in the next 2-3 years (the last 2-3 years' teams from Tulsa, UCF, UH, and ECU would challenge for top spot in the NBE). And, no, I don't think it will be a bad conference. Better than ACC for sure.

With June at the helm we won't contend for nor win the BE. With a coach that gets it, all those things are in play but we need him now because we can't afford another JJ class dragging us down in a league with no tomato cans to kick around.

Grant I think 2007 might have just been using hyperbole to make a point. I don't think he meant that in a literal sense because he knows Gaines has BCS offers.

Grant Carter wrote:

SMU2007 wrote:none of our recruits have any bcs offers.

That is simply not true. Your point is obviously valid, but when you make things up you end up undermining your argument. Why do that?

it was a hyperbole. although not that much of one since in reality there are only a handful of bcs offers between the group of them. don't get your panties in a wad. I was making a general statement.

ClickClack wrote:The complaint is not 3 bowl games. the complaint is that our coach is over paid, lazy and we are not improving on the field or in recruiting.

How about some facts on those opinions? On the salary point, what would you expect to reasonably pay a coach who singlehandedly brought the on field football results that led to a BCS conference invite, thereby saving you from CUSA 3.0, who brought your team from national afterthought at best to three straight bowls, who put many of your players into the NFL? What price would you put on that per year? And since it's easier spending someone else's money (just ask any Democrat), would that price change if you weren't paying for the coach, and your university wasn't paying for him?

The man is an unfreakingbelievable bargain even if he's not sporting Cole Haan's and giggling after every play.

ponyboy wrote:

ClickClack wrote:The complaint is not 3 bowl games. the complaint is that our coach is over paid, lazy and we are not improving on the field or in recruiting.

How about some facts on those opinions? On the salary point, what would you expect to reasonably pay a coach who singlehandedly brought the on field football results that led to a BCS conference invite, thereby saving you from CUSA 3.0, who brought your team from national afterthought at best to three straight bowls, who put many of your players into the NFL? What price would you put on that per year? And since it's easier spending someone else's money (just ask any Democrat), would that price change if you weren't paying for the coach, and your university wasn't paying for him?

The man is an unfreakingbelievable bargain even if he's not sporting Cole Haan's and giggling after every play.

Amen. And I'm not a huge JJ fan by any stretch. (I think most of these guys complaining are recent grads quite honestly - they just don't get it). We will take the next step over the process of the next 2-3 years IMHO and most likely a new head coach in 1-2 years (ie crack top 25 and on par with Big12).

ponyboy wrote:

ClickClack wrote:The complaint is not 3 bowl games. the complaint is that our coach is over paid, lazy and we are not improving on the field or in recruiting.

How about some facts on those opinions? On the salary point, what would you expect to reasonably pay a coach who singlehandedly brought the on field football results that led to a BCS conference invite, thereby saving you from CUSA 3.0, who brought your team from national afterthought at best to three straight bowls, who put many of your players into the NFL? What price would you put on that per year? And since it's easier spending someone else's money (just ask any Democrat), would that price change if you weren't paying for the coach, and your university wasn't paying for him?

The man is an unfreakingbelievable bargain even if he's not sporting Cole Haan's and giggling after every play.

To support some of ClickClack's comments:

Ponyboy - we all understand your undying love for jj. However, please name non-BCS 3 coaches that were making 2+mil. at the time jj was hired. IMO he was overpaid and still is. With the changes in the model I suspect there are other coaches who had the ability to turn this program around.

Next- jj is indeed lazy and uninterested in SMU. Proof- just read J. David Miller’s book on jj and Hawaii Warrior Football. jj went everywhere, met with all the people he could, attended numerous luncheons, interfaced with the governor etc. etc.
What actions similar to that has he done in Dallas. He is not well known here because he has done very little to interface with the ‘shakers and movers’ of Dallas let alone the rest of the Dallas community.

Read about LB’s recent trips and meeting with coaches. Not just in Texas but all over the U.S. jj is not even interested in visiting local coaches within 150 miles of Dallas to build relationships. Not correct? Name 10 local high schools that he has visited. A coach who is not lazy gets out and promotes his product and tries to build relationships.

‘got us the BE invite’ ? Hardly, IMO most of the credit for getting into the BE goes to Orsini and Turner. I doubt that jj had any discussions with the BE commissioner about us joining. If I am incorrect please document the dates and times of his meetings with the commissioner.

I hope our team does well this year but I also hope the jj is gone at the end of the year. We need a coach who will embrace our school, our traditions and desires to bring in the best athletes he possibly can so we will not be at the bottom of the BE for the next few years.

His onfield results were a necessary condition of us getting the Big East invitation. His mere name recognition didn't hurt either.

We could speculate about how others *might* have been able to turn this thing around after the post DP years of increasing futility and perennial bottom 10 status. But the fact is that, speculation aside, June Sheldon Jones DID it. No ifs, ands, buts, maybes, and I'll respect you in the morning. He DID it. No need to speculate there.

The laziness argument. Ok, maybe.

So what is my official JJ position? Brought us back to the national radar, was a necessary condition of a Big East invite, three straight bowls, great at turning kids into NFL players. I have zero problem with the ASU situation, as awkward as it was. I have zero problem that others are willing to pay him what they pay him. I have zero problem with how he dresses, or his emotionless sideline demeanor -- as a matter of fact, I like it. I am concerned with his recruiting. And I do believe that it's probably time to move on after this season due to the fact that his job is done and he's getting bored. (But I choose to give him the rest of this season to make that final judgement call). I am thankful for him and when he's gone I'll always consider him a true SMU hero.

ponyboy wrote: The laziness argument. Ok, maybe.

STOP EVERYTHING. HELL HAS FROZEN OVER. PONYBOY HAS CONCEDED THAT JUNE MIGHT HAVE A SINGLE FAULT AFTER ALL.

Trust me. ClickClack will solidly respond.

Dwan wrote:It is funny how people love the star system of recruiting.

I hear a lot of look, we have a former 5 Star and two former 4 Stars so that shows we are improving our talent....but also, we have guys who were two stars who go on to be all conference and NFL players so who cares about the star system.

The reality is, Gilbert and Love were overrated out of high school and Reed and Beasley were underrated in high school.

We are going to go nowhere signing players who were overrated in high school much as we will go nowhere only looking for players who are underrated.

+1