A&M and BU presidents lobbied for UH for Big 12 inclusion

[gostangs]

unbelievable miracle? i think it was unbelievable we were so bad for so long with all of our advantages. Getting to mediocre is not a miracle. Stallion is right on this one - if JJ gets some young stud recruiters we can do what basketball is doing. Until then we will be middle of the road forever.

[ponyboy]

That thankless attitude shows a remarkable ignorance about how hard institutional cultural change really is. A freaking miracle is what JJ pulled off given what he walked into. What have you done for me lately is such an ugly human characteristic.

[WordUpBU]

unbelievable miracle? i think it was unbelievable we were so bad for so long with all of our advantages. Getting to mediocre is not a miracle. Stallion is right on this one - if JJ gets some young stud recruiters we can do what basketball is doing. Until then we will be middle of the road forever.

That thankless attitude shows a remarkable ignorance about how hard institutional cultural change really is. A freaking miracle is what JJ pulled off given what he walked into. What have you done for me lately is such an ugly human characteristic.

Coming from a school that also spent a good decade not committed to the sport due to it's own foolishness I agree with both of these comments to a degree.

Yes as gostangs says SMU needs some additional boost in recruiting to help with depth. Your starters are solid but your backups aren't very deep in the trenches. SMU has done a good job developing players like Taylor Thompson, Torlan Pittman, Taylor Reed, Ja'Gared Davis, Joyner, and Cole Beasley into very capable players from pretty humble starting points but they simply need more of them and that is a recruiting issue. No matter how good you at building things up you need the raw materials and Jones isn't getting a ton of it.

Ponyboy does bring up a good point though and one I see on BU boards as well- people gloss over how bad things actually were. Being blunt and honest with things the truth is Jones walked into a situation with no winning tradition in the lifetime of current recruits, solid but not overwhelming practice facilities, a cultural disconnect from the majority of DFW that doesn't appeal to recruits, and a nice stadium who's appeal is dragged down by attendance on par with Rice, Tulane, and Tulsa. Not exactly the easiest place to recruit to despite it's location. SMU has improved by going to four bowls, trying to reach out to DFW at large, and slowly growing the gameday turnout but it takes time.

Similar things could be said for us when CAB arrived. No winning in recruit's lifetimes, subpar facilities, thinned out fanbase due to losing so much, and a disconnect with the local area. Now we have 3 straight bowls, a heisman, elite facilities, dramatically increased attendance, and a much tighter bond with our area.

Jones leaves some things to be desired recruiting wise but it would be foolish to gloss over how far he has brought the program on the backs of 2 star recruits he started with. If he was replaced he would have left it better than he found it for sure.

[NavyCrimson]

Well said - BU.

[Prideful Pony]

Well said - BU.

Ditto. JJ has taken us a long way, and we should be grateful for that, but that doesn't (necessarily) mean he's our bus driver for the next leg of our trip back to the top.

[CalallenStang]

There are two points that people argue on here, and the issue is that they are not mutually exclusive.

One group argues that June has done a great job by elevating this program from #110 in the country to #60 in the country. They note that even with SMU's increased commitment, June still got the job done.

The other group argues that due to a lack of focus on recruiting and having an offense that seems to have been figured out by the rest of the country, June is unable to take us to the next step: top 25.

These arguments run parallel to each other, and so there is actually much common ground to be had. However, this being a message board, people naturally want to "win" the argument than explore common ground. Hence one person on the first group calling June's job an "unbelievable miracle," which is a claim that without proper definition cannot be properly refuted (what makes something a miracle and what makes that miracle unbelievable?) while someone on the other side tried to refute the claim anyway.

[blackoutpony]

^ +1

[StallionsModelT]

June was the right hire in 2007. He proved at Hawaii he could take nothing and turn it into something.

The question now is where is the progress? For four years we have essentially been at the same level. There are a lot of SMU fans who probably feel that 7-6 is about as good as we can do. There are those of us on the other side of the fence that believe we can be a Top 25 program. June has had quite a few years to get us over that next hump. He hasn't done it. The question is simple. Do you believe SMU deserves more?

[LHS81]

Free Sherwood Blount

[originaloverthehilltop1]

let's win at least a conference championship in football (outright) before we start the chant for the next step up.

and basketball would be nice too, preferably in the same year.

now that would be a statement.

winning and at least contending every year would make me enjoy THIS conference a lot better, too.

whining about where we should be while NOT contending where we are got old a long time ago, guys.

[sbsmith]

let's win at least a conference championship in football (outright) before we start the chant for the next step up.

and basketball would be nice too, preferably in the same year.

now that would be a statement.

winning and at least contending every year would make me enjoy THIS conference a lot better, too.

whining about where we should be while NOT contending where we are got old a long time ago, guys.

That's part of the problem, June is not only unable to get us the the next level but he's not even fit to win a conference title.

[gostangs]

I guess i am grateful June got us from the bottom of the barrel to the middle of the barrel. That is no miracle. We are in year 6, and he averages 500 vs below average teams, has never won vs anyone of any merit (other than one win vs TCU).

Other teams have apparently performed actual miracles since they have done more with less and gone farther than we have - proving institutional change aint all that unusual. June has recieved the highest non BCS salary, big increases for his assistant coaches, improvements to the locker room and weight room, hell we even changed the direction of the lights and added two goofy horses since he asked. We have looked the other way while he golfs while others recruit, hires oldsters while others get young and aggressive coaches and recruiters, wears goofy bushes around his neck three yrs after leaving Hawaii, and whines about attendence. After 6 yrs i dont call that a miracle, i call it average at best. thats not ugly, its factual. For 2.3 mil a year, hell yes i say what have you dont for me lately.

[WordUpBU]

I guess i am grateful June got us from the bottom of the barrel to the middle of the barrel. That is no miracle. We are in year 6, and he averages 500 vs below average teams, has never won vs anyone of any merit (other than one win vs TCU).

Other teams have apparently performed actual miracles since they have done more with less and gone farther than we have - proving institutional change aint all that unusual.

Which specific teams are you referring to? Most of the turnarounds from similar starting points have taken a long time.

June has recieved the highest non BCS salary, big increases for his assistant coaches, improvements to the locker room and weight room, hell we even changed the direction of the lights and added two goofy horses since he asked. We have looked the other way while he golfs while others recruit, hires oldsters while others get young and aggressive coaches and recruiters, wears goofy bushes around his neck three yrs after leaving Hawaii, and whines about attendence. After 6 yrs i dont call that a miracle, i call it average at best. thats not ugly, its factual. For 2.3 mil a year, hell yes i say what have you dont for me lately.

Understandable frustration at certain aspects of his resume.

[mrydel]

Jones got administrative changes made that lesser coaches had not and could not get changed. His goal was to get us into a BCS conference and he succeeded even though the landscape is a moving target. That is not his fault. I am happy he got us where we are but I personally think it is now time for a change. If he were to bring in some active young recruiters I would be happy for him to be here forever. But we cannot afford to not recruit and not expect to be left behind. I also still have pretty bad feeling for the recruiting for another school while still on our payroll, but a couple of 4 star recruits could allow the healing to begin.

[LA_Mustang]

I think gostangs and mrydel both make good points. IMO, JJ could not be in a better position. He is pulling in 2.3 million a year with almost zero pressure. In fact, he may have one of the best coaching jobs in all of sports. There's no one in the local media who cares enough to ever question JJ's game decisions, recruiting or assistant hires. Other than the vocal few on here, our fan base is so passive they just think it is really awesome we have made a few bowl games after none for 25 years. Obviously, most still don't even care enough to go to games. And they damn sure don't realize the lack of effort the staff devotes to recruiting. But as LB has shown, with the right staff, SMU can compete with any school in recruiting 4 and 5 star level talent if the coaches are consistently working and selling. We have two different staffs with completely different approaches to recruiting and the results are obvious.