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Re: Attendance if SMU went 12-0?? I think we'd only see 9k e
Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:01 pm
by ponyboy
I don't know. At least in my time your chances of knowing an athlete was pretty strong, compared to say Texas Tech, just due to the small size of the student body at SMU. I had athletes in my classes a lot and saw them on campus a lot.
Re: Attendance if SMU went 12-0?? I think we'd only see 9k e
Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:31 pm
by Charleston Pony
I think it will help to have more on campus housing situated so close to Ford. Improved attendance starts with better student attendance so the more you have living on campus the better
Re: Attendance if SMU went 12-0?? I think we'd only see 9k e
Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:29 pm
by SMU2007
Unless SMU ever makes it to a "big boy" conference, there's no way we will ever have real attendance. No one wants to see us play teams like UConn, Temple, UCF etc. whether we are 12-0 or 0-12.
If we start competing against teams like OU, Baylor, Texas, etc. year in and year out, people will come. Until then, good luck getting people interested in 2nd tier football.
Re: Attendance if SMU went 12-0?? I think we'd only see 9k e
Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:52 pm
by GiddyUp
i am not sure what your Ross Potts Mustang Mania would look like but I am pretty sure you can't just give away tickets and have said this numerous times. That came from Terry Humme talking about Groupon and the like. Tickets have to be at least 1/2 paid of face value or something like that for attendance figures. This same thread has gone on for 100's of times for 15 yrs. Same stuff, over and over and over. Just go back and look....
our attendance is probably the same as the Bennett 0'fer or 2-5 win teams I am guessing.
Re: Attendance if SMU went 12-0?? I think we'd only see 9k e
Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:14 pm
by ftworthmustang
Unfortunately our team is only marginally better this year than Bennett's 2-5 win teams, which would explain the attendance, if it was similar.
Re: Attendance if SMU went 12-0?? I think we'd only see 9k e
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:48 am
by stc9
ponyinNC wrote:Tulane is probably our most similar conference mate - a small private university in a large city that has professional sports teams with very passionate fanbases and has a lot of competition for entertainment dollars. That's exactly the situation SMU now finds itself in.
I went back to see what Tulane avg. attendance was in their glory year of 1998 - a 12-0 season with Tommy Bowden at Coach, future NFL'er Shuan King at QB and a #7 finish in Coaches Poll / AP. That year, Tulane averaged 27,500 fans at home games. They saw increased attendance for rivalry games against USM and La Tech. Other home games that year included UH, SW Louisiana, Louisville and Navy.
We are averaging 18,500 fans at home games this year, obviously helped/skewed by the TTU game attendance of 35k. With 1 more home game left against UCF, I think our numbers are pretty stable at 18,500 for the year.
So, if we take the numbers from Tulane and apply to SMU, even with an undefeated season, I only see about a 9k increase in attendance with a similar schedule and fan base. Could we pick up more T-shirt fans than Tulane did in 1998? Sure, that is possible. Dallas population is 1.2M while New Orleans sits at 375k, so the potential for more fans is there.
Would we have had bigger wins than that Tulane team? Sure - we would've beaten Tech, TAMU and TCU as well as #17 UCF. Would our final poll number be much different than Tulane's was in 1998? Probably not, as #7 is about as high as I think we'd get.
I think this is an interesting case study...but then again, I'm an attorney and not a statistician, so my logic may be flawed. I'd like to hear your opinions on the subject, whether you agree or disagree. I guess my entire point is that I see our attendance cap at about 29-30k, even in an undefeated year.
I think we would do better in the last 4 games of the season than the 29-30k range. Using your comparison between the two schools. The metroplex is a little over 3Xs the size of the New Orleans market. I think the local media attention would arouse peoples' curiosity enough to drive another 3 or 3.5k towards the gate. I don't know if they would stick as fans, but the novelty of an undefeated SMU scenario would drive more people to the gates. I would love to see it...
As far as a marketing plan goes... I think it needs to be a little bigger than that. I think it needs to be a comprehensive branding plan (including tons of PR out reach to the media) where there is a concise, well thought out message that is constantly repeated. I just can't figure out if it should inclusive of academics or should be driven by the athletic department. If it is separate, we run the risk of diluting the message. This takes tons of $$$s.
Re: Attendance if SMU went 12-0?? I think we'd only see 9k e
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:28 pm
by mustang1992
I think SMU needs to reach out to the local Methodist churches. UMYF day at the game. Lots of churches would probably take part in this if they reached out to them, offered them cheap tickets. Just a thought.
Re: Attendance if SMU went 12-0?? I think we'd only see 9k e
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:19 pm
by feelthehorsepower
SMU2007 wrote:Unless SMU ever makes it to a "big boy" conference, there's no way we will ever have real attendance. No one wants to see us play teams like UConn, Temple, UCF etc. whether we are 12-0 or 0-12.
If we start competing against teams like OU, Baylor, Texas, etc. year in and year out, people will come. Until then, good luck getting people interested in 2nd tier football.
Not true, TCU was averaging 36k-40k from 2002-2008 and they were in CUSA, MWC...and that was before Fiesta Bowl, Rose Bowl years. In the 1990's attendance and seasons were similar to pre JJ era...2-10 seasons, 18k fans average
Re: Attendance if SMU went 12-0?? I think we'd only see 9k e
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:16 pm
by sbsmith
feelthehorsepower wrote:
Not true, TCU was averaging 36k-40k from 2002-2008
Not quite
2002-27813
2003-36155
2004-29413
2005-31254
2006-31926
2007-30018
2008-30389
Re: Attendance if SMU went 12-0?? I think we'd only see 9k e
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:32 pm
by ender3
I think the point that Stallion was making, before he seems to have bailed on this thread (and who can blame him) is that winning, alone, isn't enough.
For those of you who were fans in the 1980-1984 period, sure the attendance was better. But that was 30,000 Arkansas fans every other year. 35,000 A&M fans every other year. 50,000 UT fans every other year.
The point is, even when winning, even with a Mustang Mania marketing campaign... SMU's attendance has never been more than about 9-11K better than it is right now. Ever.
The steps to improve attendance are obvious, but extremely difficult to implement:
1) Win.
2) Schedule attractive OOC games that the local Dallas resident is interested in. While continuing to win.
3) Upgrade our conference to one that contains teams that local fans care about. While continuing to win.
4) Market the heck out of an awesome product, which is tremendously easier than marketing a .500 team and incoming games like Memphis and UCONN.
Implementing these steps requires a call out to Stallion's other hot button:
.5) Improve recruiting
Otherwise step 1 is a tremendous obstacle.
And then... EVEN THEN... we're going to rely on the other team's fans to fill up the joint. It's just a fact of life.
EDIT: I don't mean to sound like anything is impossible. The basketball team is making serious progress towards steps 1, 2 and 3.
Re: Attendance if SMU went 12-0?? I think we'd only see 9k e
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:58 pm
by East Coast Mustang
sbsmith wrote:feelthehorsepower wrote:
Not true, TCU was averaging 36k-40k from 2002-2008
Not quite
2002-27813
2003-36155
2004-29413
2005-31254
2006-31926
2007-30018
2008-30389
Read, don't post, FTHP
Re: Attendance if SMU went 12-0?? I think we'd only see 9k e
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:14 pm
by SMUer
What's preventing Methodists from supporting our university now? I don't understand why people keep bringing that up as a target demographic...
Re: Attendance if SMU went 12-0?? I think we'd only see 9k e
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:09 pm
by SMU2007
winning isn't enough because no one cares who we are playing.
Re: Attendance if SMU went 12-0?? I think we'd only see 9k e
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:20 pm
by Stallion
Another consideration-I'm not so sure SMU's attendance in the 1980s but after Mustang Mania are really that comparable. Consider if SMU had the Boulevard and a great on campus facility in the 1980s. I feel quite confident being very close to the program of the following:
1. First its unlikely we ever have those great recruiting classes in the first place because Texas Stadium was about half of our selling point-Texas Stadium Home of the Dallas Cowboys was a big deal back then. (This really is non-germane to the present argument but something that should be pointed out. Playing at Texas Stadium as opposed to small modern on campus facility was essential to the Program)
2. But assuming all those great recruits decided to play in diminutive Ford Stadium. I've got to believe SMU's attendance would be much higher with no student bus rides to Irving and beautiful Boulevard for pregame atmosphere if we were nationally competitive. Hard to quantify-but playing 10 miles off campus was a definite negative
Re: Attendance if SMU went 12-0?? I think we'd only see 9k e
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:29 pm
by ReedFrawg
sbsmith wrote:ftworthmustang wrote:Until we get a better product on the field, don't think any kind of marketing will get people in the stands.
This....west Virginia brought more fans to tcu this year than smu. Not sure what the answer is...