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I won a national championship in soccer in front of less than 100 people; football players must not be very competitive by nature.

SMUer wrote:I won a national championship in soccer in front of less than 100 people; football players must not be very competitive by nature.

And sadly, that hasn't changed. When I walked on we had more future pro soccer players than football players. Heck, we have more future US MNT players than we had pro football players.

Having said that...how do you recruit football talent of any accord when you have less SMU fans attending home conference games than you have students attending an HP football game? That is a serious problem, and making snide comments about the football team doesn't help.

Attendance is a chicken and egg issue. You need the optics of strong fan support when you are recruiting (you don't think bringing a player on a campus visit into a full stadium of roaring fans beats 5K bored away fans?), but how do you get that without a strong program? To do all of this, you need a good marketing department and a powerful sales pitch to the student base and local market. The entire school needs to embrace the team and program, and that includes Turner, and until his lipservice is replaced by tangible actions felt by the school community and program, we won't have the appreciable buy-in necessary for a successful program.

Hart has got the marketing chops. If you get a good coach that show some momentum with regards to recruiting and community relations, I would expect attendance to start moving positively.

Basketball went from a 1500 avg to 3000 then to about 5k (approximate numbers by memory). If you extrapolate by % and apply to Ford, you see what our future should be.

Turner is doing the minimum. Just remember how long he kept Copeland around. That hurt us as much as anything. Hopefully Hart pushes us along till Turner retires.

PonyinNC and puckhead, you guys get it. Stallion, a swing and a miss.

All the guys that babble on about Turner's lack of commitment have a common theme-they don't ever say a damn thing. How is Turner not committed? They mention lack of an Indoor Practice Facility. OK that's one-and the evidence is not really clear that is all Turner's fault. When TCU and Baylor turned their program around they did it without IPFs. Next excuse. He hired the guy just about every one on this board wanted to coach this team and basically broke the salary structure for the NCAA Football Head Coaches;

Hired wildly popular choice for Football Coach for 2 Million per year

Hired wildly popular Basketball Coaching Legend again breaking NCAA salary structure for both Head Coach/ Assistants

Built Ford Stadium and numerous subsequent improvements

Renovated Moody Coliseum to national acclaim

Addressed lack of athlete friendly courses by creating a College of Education including Sports Management and Kinesiology. This was an incredibly expensive investment to create quality buildings, professors and infrastructure. I have no idea how much but I bet it might be in the 60 Million range by the time everything is done

Funds athletics at the top of non-BCS schools despite among the worst attendance/per investment in College Football

Invented the wildly popular SMU Boulevard to attract fans to Football games

Systematically removed structural admission barriers in numerous ways to admit NCAA minimum qualifiers in both Football and Basketball

Built Crum Basketball facility is among best in the Country

Since 2008 when admission standards were lowered has seen SMU go to 4 straight bowls-the first in 25 years-and the meteoric rise in the Basketball program proving that the reductions in admission standards have shown tangible benefits


Stop deflecting the blame from June Jones. SMU is handicapped not by Turner but by YOU-the coddled, apathetic SMU fan- Most of YOU simply don't care that much about athletics. Most of you don't bother to consistently sit your [deleted] in your seat for 6 games a year even after 4 straight bowl games. Most of YOU can't be bothered to drive to Ft Worth or Waco or College Station to see SMU play their most historic rivals.

SMU fanbase hurts recruiting more than any other factor now that admission standards have been lowered. SMU funds athletics at the Top of non-BCS programs while SMU fanbase supports the program at the lowest levels of all NCAA fanbases. Athletics is not and should not be a bottomless pit. Educational resources should not be flushed down the toilet for a program that does not attract 10,000 SMU fans to a home opener against Texas A&M. It is not fair to compare SMU to TCU and Baylor in 2014 because those program receive an extra 20 million per year in Conference revenue and an extra 15-20 Million or so in extra gameday and ticket revenue. That puts SMU in a 35-40 Million dollar hole.

The only way SMU can compete is to be funded by Millionaires or to replace the funding gap with revenue from Ticket sales. Turner is not the problem-the SMU fanbase is the long term rally killer that will prevent SMU from reaching the next level. Despite the anecdotal statements the TCU and Baylor fanbase were never half as bad as the SMU fanbase and especially not after 4 straight bowls. SMU has and will have an Athletics Department that SMU alumni are willing to fund by donations and ticket revenue-SMU fanbase richly deserves its 0-5 Football record

There is absolutely nothing preventing SMU from competing right now except the Right Coach and and YOU-an actual fanbase. SMU is looking for that Head Coach-will YOU be in the stands to support the program transition to the next coach or will you just not be bother to come to Ford while our attendance dwindles to 5,000. You don't think YOU are the biggest hindrance from SMU getting that Hotshot Coach when he sees 5,000 in our stadium?

Slow clap

Yeah...that is baseline marketing of Turner's (or the board/administration/etc) actions. While I could offer up explanations how many of those have little to do with athletics or fall under Turner's academic improvement mandate based on his position. Nice that it took you to post that, not the school.

Having said that, and having stated over and over again that the complete joke that is SMU on-campus and overall fan support is a huge detriment, I still don't buy the math. I would like to see our overall athletic success level per DIV 1 over the tenure of Turner. When I attended back at the beginning of the Turner era, we were often in the top 15 overall for D1 programs. Why? Because those programs that many posters here love to mock, such as swimming and diving and soccer and track (when we had a men's program too), etc., actually had winning programs. What is the trend-line for SMU athletics? I would bet it is down.

If our academic standards went down and there were scandals involving academic leaders "quitting" on students, you bet he would be expected to speak out more than "I really support our academic program and really want them to be top notch." I would expect new standards to be set and metrics followed to ensure the changes were effective and being enforced. That is what I want to hear and see from Turner. I don't want a quote in a story from some idiot at the DMN. I want Turner to proactively engage.

Much of this should and hopefully (I say that, but any proactive PR would be a new thing for this administration in re football) will be done, just look at basketball, once the new coach is hired. But please...please...stop comparing the speed and successful engagement with basketball to football. The changes made for basketball are a gnat compared to what is required for football, both on a financial and personal commitment scale. They can be viewed as a positive example, but that is it. One or two good players get you in a game in basketball, and moving to a good conference where you sit that close to the court draw in fans of other teams players. It doesn't work the same with football.

Whose gonna write that Check for the PR promotion campaign after they have been bleed dry by the above Athletic initiatives, the Campaign, the Bush Library, the Circle of Champions. the Indoor Practice Facility. Its got to come from somewhere. I had a first hand, inside look at Mustang Mania so I'm not discounting it might work but how long are we going to rely upon a small group of Millionaires to seed the program while nobody shows up at our games. That seed investment was supposed to result in revenue from ticket sales and fan support. It worked perfectly in Basketball-not in Football because of the difference between June Jones and Larry Brown not because of Turner. As for other sports-get this straight right now-as a non-P5 program they also will be need to be supported by alumni with interests in that sport. They will get the program SMU alumni deserve and are willing to invest in.

"The only way SMU can compete is to be funded by Millionaires or to replace the funding gap with revenue from Ticket sales. Turner is not the problem-the SMU fanbase is the long term rally killer that will prevent SMU from reaching the next level. Despite the anecdotal statements the TCU and Baylor fanbase were never half as bad as the SMU fanbase and especially not after 4 straight bowls. SMU has and will have an Athletics Department that SMU alumni are willing to fund by donations and ticket revenue-SMU fanbase richly deserves its 0-5 Football record

There is absolutely nothing preventing SMU from competing right now except the Right Coach and and YOU-an actual fanbase. SMU is looking for that Head Coach-will YOU be in the stands to support the program transition to the next coach or will you just not be bother to come to Ford while our attendance dwindles to 5,000. You don't think YOU are the biggest hindrance from SMU getting that Hotshot Coach when he sees 5,000 in our stadium?"



Blasphemy Stallion, blasphemy. Don't you realize you can't criticize SMU 'fans' without being shouted down, followed by the accompanying excuse machine? (games people care about, Blvd. fans don't matter, gotta win big first, blah, blah, blah.

I think this thread may be approaching its word limit.

It does take balls to offend and question something that really doesn't effectively exist.

Let me try...."Loch ness monster...you stink!"
I feel better.

I'd like to see initiative-specific funding drives by SMU. I need something more specific than "Mustang Club"; I'd donate to "Indoor Practice Facility" or "Weight Room Improvement". The underlying problem is that SMU has no Master Plan as to where it was going. No road map.

I have a solution....sure to get the fans butts in seats (we know the product isn't going to do that this season).

Revive the old Stone Pony Penny Pitcher nights at home games. Penny pitchers for all students in attendance. I would suggest they also card at the same rate as the old bar did....which was sparingly at best. Not only would our attendance skyrocket (imagine the outreach to high school players and fans in the area!), but they would present that loud and excited demographic that would help our image on TV.

Would need to expand the bathrooms first.

SMUer wrote:I'd like to see initiative-specific funding drives by SMU. I need something more specific than "Mustang Club"; I'd donate to "Indoor Practice Facility" or "Weight Room Improvement". The underlying problem is that SMU has no Master Plan as to where it was going. No road map.

Can't do that fully because some areas would never get enough support, and you cannot just let them die due to title 9. But I would think you could allow a designated portion (20%?) go to a specific cause. That might help donations somewhat.