Big 12 makes deal

[Dukie]

Tell a bunch of insightful truths, be a basic jacka$s to almost everyone, never admit those few times you are wrong, and then quit when you get caught on a big crow-eating malprediction.

While I believe you've accurately stated the Stallion PonyFans.com behavior model, I think the question was more what model was Stallion advocating for SMU athletics. As I recall, it involved ending the blindingly stupid, restrictive, and slow academic straitjacket that was on recruiting, investing far more dollars and effort in the football program, and essentially returning SMU to being on equal footing in trying to compete with our "natural and historic rivals" or something like that. At the time, he, like pretty much everyone, thought that "SMU 2 BCS" would mean getting into the Big 12. It now seems clear that's not going to happen; the ACC isn't opening its doors anytime soon; and the SEC and B1G are beyond hope, so I would imagine he'd be an advocate for the PAC if he were posting today, but who knows.

[HubbaHubba]

We have two NFL owners, one in SEC/B12 Country, one in B1G country. We should have beaten Maryland which has a winning record in the Big Ten. We hung in there with TCU who is in the Top 10. And we played close with Cincy and were one two point conversion away from going to OT. I don't think we'd finish last in any conference that would have us (except the SEC).

You forgot aggie. Everyone beats aggie.

[JasonB]

First, I think everyone should lay off of Stallion. I haven't seen him on here or at games since Covid and I am not sure if he is around anymore.

Second, PAC is going to have a streaming aspect that will push them beyond the Big 12 in revenue per team.

Third, the Big 12 was never going to offer us unless someone else wants us and threatens to take some of the market. We need the PAC to come calling, otherwise we are on hold until the ACC contract ends.

[SMU_Alum11]

First, I think everyone should lay off of Stallion. I haven't seen him on here or at games since Covid and I am not sure if he is around anymore.

Second, PAC is going to have a streaming aspect that will push them beyond the Big 12 in revenue per team.

Third, the Big 12 was never going to offer us unless someone else wants us and threatens to take some of the market. We need the PAC to come calling, otherwise we are on hold until the ACC contract ends.

It seems the PAC has to make the first move. We all know it's driven by tv/stream so do you think the execs will say:

1 team only: SDSU
2 teams: SDSU/(SMU or UNLV)
4 teams: SDSU, SMU, UNLV and other

Thoughts?

Also, have had my issues with Stallion but two things: prayers for him and hope he's okay 2) smu fans are a rare commodity we need to build bridges with each other.

[ponyboy]

Stallion has the support of everyone here. I donΓÇÖt think any of his haters are still around. Dukie, you summarize his position well. I miss the guy.

[mustangxc]

Tell a bunch of insightful truths, be a basic jacka$s to almost everyone, never admit those few times you are wrong, and then quit when you get caught on a big crow-eating malprediction.

While I believe you've accurately stated the Stallion PonyFans.com behavior model, I think the question was more what model was Stallion advocating for SMU athletics. As I recall, it involved ending the blindingly stupid, restrictive, and slow academic straitjacket that was on recruiting, investing far more dollars and effort in the football program, and essentially returning SMU to being on equal footing in trying to compete with our "natural and historic rivals" or something like that. At the time, he, like pretty much everyone, thought that "SMU 2 BCS" would mean getting into the Big 12. It now seems clear that's not going to happen; the ACC isn't opening its doors anytime soon; and the SEC and B1G are beyond hope, so I would imagine he'd be an advocate for the PAC if he were posting today, but who knows.

Also hiring a coach with local recruiting ties like Chad Morris and Sonny Dykes. SMU started the Stallion model under June Jones aside from the local ties. Stallion wanted SMU to be able to recruit without restrictions which basically sabotaged SMU from being competitive for 25 years and now has us on the outside looking in.

[SoCal_Pony]

It seems the PAC has to make the first move. We all know it's driven by tv/stream so do you think the execs will say:

1 team only: SDSU
2 teams: SDSU/(SMU or UNLV)
4 teams: SDSU, SMU, UNLV and other

Thoughts?

Also, have had my issues with Stallion but two things: prayers for him and hope he's okay 2) smu fans are a rare commodity we need to build bridges with each other.

If Jason is correct, pull an Aresco and add SD St, UNLV, SMU & Houston. Split the conference into 2 Divisions

Washington / Oregon / California - Old PAC
4 Corners / Vegas / Texas - New PAC

As for Stallion, he was the best poster ever on this site. I think his Mom was employed at SMU so he was a fan even as a kid. He was an SMU encyclopedia, sports & otherwise.

[peruna81]

A fellow poster here sees him on occasion at home games. I have never met the man, but have missed his insight.

No Rodney King "Cant we all just get along?" mantra or rant. I don't have a dog in that fight, and Stallion certainly took me to task for my "naïveté", but this one thought endures...why do we choose to shoot our own Mustang wounded?

[PerunaPunch]

I miss Stallion's support of this site and of SMU athletics, but his egomaniacal self-righteousness is certainly not missed.

Despite what he seems to have duped many into believing, Stallion was no way near as well informed as he thinks he was. But he could never, ever admit he was wrong or misinformed -- his ego would always get in the way.

For example, there was once a very popular offensive line coach who left the program and went to "name" west coast program. Leaving SMU was not that coach's choice, and it was not an epic failure on the part of SMU to keep him. Those who followed this coach's career after leaving SMU know some of the reasons why.

Another example was an OL who ostensibly left SMU because he missed home in California. Stallion and I went round and round on this... Just because a student-athlete tells a Rivals reporter that he's leaving because he's homesick does not make it true. You guys can probably think of LOTS of reasons a student-athlete might not be returning to the program (other than homesickness), which they might not want to see plastered all over the news. Duh. By the way, that homesick-for-California student-athlete ended up at East Carolina.

And finally, just check out my signature line. I thought about updating it for this season, but nope, still makes me giggle.

All that being said, I can't deny the dude's contribution to PonyFans. If you need any more proof, it's that we're still talking about Stallion years after his departure.

[JasonB]

It seems the PAC has to make the first move. We all know it's driven by tv/stream so do you think the execs will say:

1 team only: SDSU
2 teams: SDSU/(SMU or UNLV)
4 teams: SDSU, SMU, UNLV and other

Thoughts?

Also, have had my issues with Stallion but two things: prayers for him and hope he's okay 2) smu fans are a rare commodity we need to build bridges with each other.

If Jason is correct, pull an Aresco and add SD St, UNLV, SMU & Houston. Split the conference into 2 Divisions

Washington / Oregon / California - Old PAC
4 Corners / Vegas / Texas - New PAC

As for Stallion, he was the best poster ever on this site. I think his Mom was employed at SMU so he was a fan even as a kid. He was an SMU encyclopedia, sports & otherwise.

When looking at the PAC 12, you have to understand the brand they are looking to protect. Yes, they want to maximize revenue, but they also have brand that represents strong academics and strong athletic performance across a wide variety of sports. SDSU is a california state school, which will cause a lot of objections, but they are a decent university and they have a solid athletic program across sports. Hawaii is a sleeper in the mix, because they are kind of okay academically and also have a solid overall athletics program. Houston isn't going to happen - they are locked into the Big 12 with the new deal. UNLV is a media pick - they are an awful university and don't invest in athletics at all. Boise State is on the downslide in football, and is a terrible academic school. Another sleeper that nobody is talking about is the University of San Diego, which has an overall strong athletic program and is a good academic school.

I'm still going to point out that Rice fits academically and even though they are awful at football and basketball, the rest of their athletics do quite well. Tulsa are good enough academically, and their overall athletics are good, they could be a sleeper. Tulane people talk about because they are having a good year in football, but the overall athletics program is a disaster. Colorado State hasn't been great in football or basketball recently, but their overall athletics are good and they are a decent enough school. They may be a sleeper to pair with Colorado.

Keep in mind that with the expansion of the CFP, there is not as much pressure on the PAC to expand. So they could choose not to. I think the only pressure to expand would come from the media folks that want more eyes.

50% - no expansion
20% - Stay West - SDSU and either USD or Hawaii. Amazon makes big business on shipping to Hawaii, so if they are the streaming provider, that could play a big factor.
15% - Expand - SDSU +USD or Hawaii, plus SMU and Rice.
15% - Go big or go home - Expand plan plus Colorado State and Air Force. Lock in Colorado and then with Air Force again remember Amazon and global shipping...

[EastStang]

Unless the politicians force it, I don't see Colorado being a cheerleader for CSU. Sort of like UVa didn't want VT in the ACC until the politicians forced it on them. If UVA had gotten their way, we'd have VT as a conference mate since they were in the Big East, but I digress. I agree, that its not a sure thing that the PAC12 will expand at all. As I have long said, we'll be in a P5 conference if the TV suits demand it. When PAC does their TV negotiations, networks will say, this is what we'll offer you. PAC comes back, "what if we add SDS?" Networks "we'll add x to the number". What if we add SMU? How will the networks respond to that question is the answer.

[SoCal_Pony]

When PAC does their TV negotiations, networks will say, this is what we'll offer you. PAC comes back, "what if we add SDS?" Networks "we'll add x to the number". What if we add SMU? How will the networks respond to that question is the answer.

Correct, if you believe what Sr ESPN & Fox execs repeatedly say, that is the process.

Assume B12 gets $31M / team
Assume PAC12 gets $32M / team

I do think PAC wants to secure the SoCal market so the odds of adding SD St are 50%+. The question is does PAC expand more.

If the networks say SMU adds $15M of value, whatΓÇÖs to prevent the PAC from offering us membership at a reduced rate??? They may very well take this approach as in this environment i donΓÇÖt know if conferences want to have only 10 or 11 members.

And as to you, Jason….I’ve probably spent too much time on PAC expansion over multiple sources. FWIW, your predictions are way beyond what most reputable sources are projecting.

[ponyboy]

I don't see Colorado being a cheerleader for CSU. Sort of like UVa didn't want VT in the ACC until the politicians forced it on them.

Right CU wants CSU in the same conference the same way TCU wants us.

[EastStang]

ESPN reported that Big 12 in discussions with Gonzaga.

[JasonB]

When PAC does their TV negotiations, networks will say, this is what we'll offer you. PAC comes back, "what if we add SDS?" Networks "we'll add x to the number". What if we add SMU? How will the networks respond to that question is the answer.

Correct, if you believe what Sr ESPN & Fox execs repeatedly say, that is the process.

Assume B12 gets $31M / team
Assume PAC12 gets $32M / team

I do think PAC wants to secure the SoCal market so the odds of adding SD St are 50%+. The question is does PAC expand more.

If the networks say SMU adds $15M of value, whatΓÇÖs to prevent the PAC from offering us membership at a reduced rate??? They may very well take this approach as in this environment i donΓÇÖt know if conferences want to have only 10 or 11 members.

And as to you, Jason….I’ve probably spent too much time on PAC expansion over multiple sources. FWIW, your predictions are way beyond what most reputable sources are projecting.

I get it. Like I said, I think the odds are no expansion or a smaller round. But the streaming services change the equation a little differently than the way traditional networks would plan. I have no idea if Amazon or Apple will win the deal, but if Amazon does I can tell you that their equations are all mapped towards Amazon Prime subscriptions and AWS consumption, so that will play a role, and the football sources out there are not taking that into consideration.