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Re: Ponies tell MWC to shove it
Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:42 pm
by Water Pony
Given the new realities, our challenge now (with or without the Tulane invitation) is to strengthen the reconfigured Big East, as much as possible.
With the loss of Boise State and the risk of also having San Diego State remain behind in the MWC, we and our new conference mates need to have 12 FB members, as stated by Aresco. Therefore, assuming that West Coast and Rockies membership is no longer a preferred strategy (with the obvious exception for BYU) for the BE, who do we invite?
Re: Ponies tell MWC to shove it
Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:57 pm
by JasonB
Mex, as unappetizing as Tulane sounds, they are upgrades over Tulsa and Rice in two ways:
1) Market (UH will carry the Houston market better than Rice).
2) The recent commitment to athletics (Tulane is building a new on-campus football stadium).
Tulane has apparently decided that they don't want to be division 2. So they are going to re-invest in their athletic program. That is the reason they are in the conversation; if they decide to do that, they have more revenue potential than southern miss or Tulsa.
Personally, I will believe it when the shovels hit the dirt, but that is at least the story that the Tulane folks sold and the Big East schools bought it.
Turner absolutely does not have enough play in the Big East to make that happen on his own. So as good as that story sounds, it wasn't us that got Tulane in. It was the other programs buying the Tulane story.
Because of that, I can absolutely envision a scenario where the school presidents say "okay, I buy it, they are in" because of the potential money, whereas the ADs said "Tulane sucks, no way", and eventually got the presidents to backtrack.
Re: Ponies tell MWC to shove it
Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:26 pm
by birddogger
Personally, I will believe it when the shovels hit the dirt, but that is at least the story that the Tulane folks sold and the Big East schools bought it.
My client is driving the piles for the new stadium. Believe it!
Still, I am less than enthused that Tulane will be in the nBE. Its athletic program is in shambles, except for women's BB.
Re: Ponies tell MWC to shove it
Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:34 pm
by Mexmustang
Jason, thanks for your perspective. But, Rice is also remodeling or rebuilding a new stadium and they certainly play better football. The only team Tulane could beat is a damn team from Dallas that forgot it was playing against the clock instead of them!
Re: Ponies tell MWC to shove it
Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:52 pm
by CalallenStang
Mexmustang wrote:I would argue that even if I am entirely wrong, which a couple of speculative articles don't necessarily prove (but, thanks for your patience in finding them) they conflict in their conclusion. First the Holy Seven vote them in and then they object that they weren't consulted when Tulane is brought in?
They already had plans to leave and had already begun exploratory investigations into a TV, basketball only contract (other speculative articles) before Tulane was invited in. Why the rush to add a new member, any new member?
As far as SMU (and Houston, etc.) not having a vote, I very much doubt that. The conference was and is falling apart, there was a new president. Who would he be loyal to in terms of football? Answer: The remaining football schools and especially the new football schools he was trying to hold in line while cobbling together a new Big East. He was aware of the the threats by the Holy Seven and would be paying attention to his new bosses (read SMU), not his former ones. I would suggest that the conference was run under the "Robert's Rules of Order" in name only and that considerable polling of all the prospective football members actually made the decision and recommendation.
Once more, what was the motivation to bring on Tulane? Rice or Tulsa are better candidates (none are perticularily to my liking). But, to suggest that SMU, Houston and BSU has no say so in the decision is naive.
I am sorry to sound so condescending, but I have been through over a dozen changes in management (generally by merger and acquisition) and smart people change allegiances overnight. In the case of the conference president, he was going to side with the "winners", and those constituted primarily the new football schools not the basketball schools, who had been threateninng to leave for sometime. What would happen if the new schools had all opted out? His practical authority came from the new schools plus those football school remaining, not the conference by-laws.
The ADs said they weren't consulted. Not their presidents. There's your difference.
Here's all you need to know: the C7 schools had the majority of eligible votes. Tulane got in as an all-sports member, which could not have happened without the votes. The C7 has been looking for a way out for a long time, and this was their way out.
SMU and Houston were not asked for their opinions prior to the vote.
Re: Ponies tell MWC to shove it
Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:53 pm
by alyssa
Re: Ponies tell MWC to shove it
Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:58 pm
by abezontar
Mexmustang wrote:Jason, thanks for your perspective. But, Rice is also remodeling or rebuilding a new stadium and they certainly play better football. The only team Tulane could beat is a damn team from Dallas that forgot it was playing against the clock instead of them!
Citation needed
Re: Ponies tell MWC to shove it
Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:47 pm
by Mexmustang
"Mex, we know that Turner was unhappy with the Tulane add.."
Thanks Brad, but Turner told me that he was close to the President of BSU and that they we not only tight, but would never bolt on the Big East!
He never said anything about Tulane, must have been a different conversation. How do you know? never saw an article, an interview and certainly never said so to anyone that I know in a private conversation. We all know? Who? When? and Where?
Re: Ponies tell MWC to shove it
Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:30 pm
by Johnny Utah
Adding Tulane was a huge mistake. Tulane is located in one of the most fertile recruiting areas in the country. Dallas and Houston combined is joke compared to it. Unfortunetly, Tulane can't recruit any of that talent because the recruits would not graduate and the recruits know it. The day Tulane decides to set up a program geered to graduating kids with learning issues, Tulane will dominate . It won't even be close.
Re: Ponies tell MWC to shove it
Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:20 pm
by Stallion
yeah I don't think so-there are much more great players in DFW than in the entire state of Louisiana. Tulane has reportedly adopted SMU admission standards based on what I've read on their boards. If they adopt SMU's stance of allowing non-qualifiers to get into SMU through prep/JUCO, allow quality Division 1A transfers and admitted all qualifiers on the sliding scale with a floor of 810 SAT (which is the traditional 700 SAT under Prop 48) there is no reason they can't be successful. Its funny just a few weeks ago I noticed a huge number of New Orleans and southeastern Louisiana recruits on their signing list. After using Rivals mapping feature its quite obvious the new coach is targeting Metro New Orleans(16 of 21 commits inclding 5 three stars from Southeastern Louisiana mostly New Orleans Metro). That will pay off with synergy. Traditionally, Tulane cast a long net in recruiting because of academic standards. When I posted the info on Big East boards the Tulane fans seemed to think majjor changes in their model had been made. They have already committed some big names out of New Orleans-even last year they got that DB that played great against SMU. We shall see butI think things aren't as bad at Tulane as some suggest especially with the new stadium coming.
Re: Ponies tell MWC to shove it
Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:41 pm
by Johnny Utah
Yes, it is true DFW has "more" players. What I was talking about was talent. Notre Dame had 5 Star players last night, but anyone with eyes could see the difference in talent, notably just looking at the size of the Alabama squad. It's just a different type of player all together. If you took John Curtis High School in Metairie (Vic Valoria/Reggie Dupard's School) and put them against the DFW allstar team, it wouldn't even be close. Run a map on the NFL Draft and do it by city of origin, you will see what I am talking about.
Tulane hasn't changed one bit and partly suffers from one issue June Jones says is a problem with SMU, which is the school costs so much that you miss out on good walk ons. Tulane is $55,000.
Tulane actually could solve this problem though where SMU cannot, because they have a community college called (Tulane University School) Thus, if they really wanted to turn a corner, they would let the kids in their Tulane University School (a.k.a community college) play. You would then have walk-ons galore.
At that point, it would be lights outs. Tulane would be a major power. Too bad it's not going to happen though, because the school is run by a group that is not interested in football.
Re: Ponies tell MWC to shove it
Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:57 pm
by Grant Carter
Sorry. I think I might have misunderstood. Did you really mean to say Tulane could be a major power if they could get more walk ons?
Re: Ponies tell MWC to shove it
Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:58 pm
by Stallion
18 Elite Recruits (Rivals 4 star+) in DFW
14 Elite Recruits in entire state of Louisiana
Re: Ponies tell MWC to shove it
Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:03 pm
by Stallion
Grant Carter wrote:Sorry. I think I might have misunderstood. Did you really mean to say Tulane could be a major power if they could get more walk ons?
they'd still have to meet NCAA qualification requirements to play. I think he might be aluding to the advantage in-state Louisiana directional schools have. They can actually admit NON-QUALIFIERS who can pay in state tuition if they are admitted under low admission standards at some of those schools applicable to all students. Then if they pass they can receive scholarships after sitting out a year. Can't do that at private schools because of tuition. Its the in-state non-qualifier exception which is an advantage at some state schools across country
Re: Ponies tell MWC to shove it
Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:07 pm
by Johnny Utah
Exactly. If Tulane Community College students were allowed to play football, this would be high school part two for the New Orleans area. Tulane would once again become "New Orleans School" instead of "New Jersey's School". There was a time 80,000+ showed up to watch Tulane. Could easily happen again if the Community College was allowed to feel as though they were a part of the university.
Again, it would be lights out if this happened. It wont happen. But if it did, Yes, Tulane would be a power house.