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cutter wrote:Calallenstang,
appreciate the info.
but, I perused a few sources with similar info. as a rule, I question when institutional sources are the sole reference point for distant historical events. so, I still find it difficult to believe that no uproar of any kind existed at every significant change (just because the current institutional sources say there wasn't), especially given human nature and the normal spectrum of people's personalities and proclivities (see the array of strong opinions on this board, as a simple example).

I am certainly not the expert here, but I do know enough not to rely solely on contemporary accounts of 'history' without primary source references.

You're right to question contemporary info, and short of examining Daily Campus (and DMN) articles and old Rotundas from the time, there are no other sources from the time.

Here's another contemporary source regarding the change from "Parsons" to "Mustangs," and I'll draw a few quotes from here which I believe to have been written after consulting old primary sources (but due to lack of citations, that's honestly a guess):

http://smumustangs.cstv.com/sports/m-fo ... ts-60.html

The first football teams at SMU were unofficially known as the "Parsons" because of the large number of theology students on the team. But after SMU won a state championship in women's basketball, it was determined that the university's teams needed an official mascots. The entire SMU community had the opportunity to offer their opinion on the new name. They submitted names such as Bulls, Rams, Comanches, Pioneers and Rattlers. The list was narrowed to three finalists, and at a pep assembly on October 17, 1917, the name "Mustangs" was selected over Bisons and Greyhounds.

In other words, "Parsons" was simply a placeholder until a nickname could be chosen by the student body. There was little reason for people to be upset, as they saw "Parsons" to be inadequate in the first place.

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On to the introduction of Peruna. I am going to simply analyze this for everyone. There was no live mascot. Cy Barcus sees a Shetland Pony, has a student take it to a pep rally, and the students love it. Now there's a live mascot. If the students had hated it, Peruna would not have become the mascot.

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Note the constant here: the students (without whom, there would be no university) were the ones making the choice.

Yet when the football team went out to ask Madeleine Pickens for a "mustang" (I can provide a citation showing this was the case, and not the other way around, as some would have you believe, if needed), the student body voted, through the Student Senate, that Peruna should be the only mascot allowed on the field.

VarsityShop wrote:

mrydel wrote:Can anyone assure me that when the current Peruna retires or expires that he will be replaced with another of his breed? This is the question that has never been answered. Thank you in advance.

So speculation as to the future is all there is? Nothing as far as factual data or examples of how any of Peruna's duties have changed since the addition of the full size horses?

The issue at hand is how Peruna has been overshadowed by the horses. Yes, Peruna leads the team out of the tunnel (though at Hawaii, he shared that with the larger horses) and runs across the field in quarter breaks (again, at Hawaii, the other horses ran on the field as well).

The argument, however, is that Peruna's role as the ONLY mascot of SMU is diminished by the fact that those horses are even on the field with him and participating in activities like the team's walk at the exclusion of Peruna.

I wouldn't expect you to understand, though.

VarsityShop wrote:

mrydel wrote:Can anyone assure me that when the current Peruna retires or expires that he will be replaced with another of his breed? This is the question that has never been answered. Thank you in advance.

So speculation as to the future is all there is? Nothing as far as factual data or real examples of how any of Peruna's duties have changed since the addition of the full size horses?

Yes, just as you speculate there will be no change of the status of Peruna. The fact that does stand out is that there were 2 new horses on the field last year after it was openly announced that they would be put up after their introduction at the Navy game and not be back until they decided the way they would be used this year. So the only facts I have to go on is that there was open dishonesty in the past thus I have no reason but to believe the possibility exists for dishonesty in the future. I just do not like being mislead.

CalallenStang wrote: You're right to question contemporary info, and short of examining Daily Campus (and DMN) articles and old Rotundas from the time, there are no other sources from the time.

those are indeed more reliable sources, if they could be located. in the absence of that, referring to more contemporary views of past events are of little, or no, value, to me. the story that survives time often is the one that those with power, or vested interest, have re-told.
thus, I still rely on what I know is a constant -- the vagaries of human nature.

additionally, though I agree with you on the value of the students and their perspectives, I have a more life-worn view that those with power (not students) will shape outcomes and their stories -- then and now.

anyway, I am rambling now, so it's time to stop my post counts.

crazy horse wrote:Has anyone bothered to name the "cowboys" that sit on our "wild mustangs" throughout the game?

how about "Horses" and "[deleted]"?

crazy horse wrote:Has anyone bothered to name the "cowboys" that sit on our "wild mustangs" throughout the game?

Dip and Stick?

crazy horse wrote:Has anyone bothered to name the "cowboys" that sit on our "wild mustangs" throughout the game?

"Ennis Del Mar" and "Jack Twist"

(It's probably a good thing if you don't get it)

just remember those are not SMU students on the geldings...........

Statler wrote:just remember those are not SMU students on the geldings...........

Are you suggesting we should bring back the Squires?

SMU89 wrote:

Statler wrote:just remember those are not SMU students on the geldings...........

Are you suggesting we should bring back the Squires?

No I am saying that "Mustangs" don't have riders... they should be placed up on the grassy area by the scoreboard WITHOUT RIDERS. A reasonable compromise.....But there are rules against things that make sense.

Statler wrote:

SMU89 wrote:

Statler wrote:just remember those are not SMU students on the geldings...........

Are you suggesting we should bring back the Squires?

No I am saying that "Mustangs" don't have riders... they should be placed up on the grassy area by the scoreboard WITHOUT RIDERS. A reasonable compromise.....But there are rules against things that make sense.

Mustangs don't but you mentioned "SMU students" and "geldings" which brought to mind the SMU Student Squires.

So confusing. I might need to drink a cold Peruna.

.....But there are rules against things that make sense.

This is one of the biggest problems. If it makes sense, if it's logical, it won't get done. SMU administrators have no sense of logic or rationality. They look at the bottom line and money. That's how they communicate.

This issue of mascots is such a big deal because of two primary reasons.

1. There is no institutional memory. All, except one, of the administration/administrators did not attend SMU and has no loyalty to it or knowledge of its traditions. Consequently, it's easy for the higher ups to pick and choose what's going to happen, what's in vogue, what's the 'tradition' de jour because they don't know what the traditions are.

Students and alumni should be the ones to make decisions pertaining to mascots, etc. People who come in who have no association with the institution should have limited say in the matter, no matter how much money he is paid. The alumni are the ones who'll stay around; administrators/coaches/athletic directors don't. And alumni from other colleges shouldn't have any say, no matter what the cause or how much he/she promises to give to the university.

2. Incoming students/current students/alumni. This goes hand in hand. The weekend before classes begin, freshman attend 'Mustang Corral.' This is something that has been instituted since I was a freshman, and I don't know what happens over that weekend, but clearly instruction about traditions and installation of pride and spirit for the university are rather low on the list of priorities.

If one looks at places such as A&M, freshmen participate in activities that link them once and for all to the Aggies. At larger universities such as this, a similar thing happens - not necessarily yell practice sorts of events, but the students, by the time they arrive at their schools, already have an ingrained love for and pride in the institution and its mascots. This clearly doesn't happen at SMU, unless one's parents or other relatives have attended this institution.

Last year was the first time I have ever seen students participating and getting involved at football games. I don't know what took place to result in this, but it was wonderfull seeing two entire student sections participating in the Mustang Band's cheers, dancing on the benches cheer, and 'Peruna,' as they did. it would be great if the alumni, sitting on the pressbox side of the stadium, would learn these things and participate as well. I think the students are starting to get it; the alumni need to start following suit.

Alumni play a special role in all this. If we don't like what's happending, we need to let the powers that be know we don't like it. This may not change anything, but at least they'll know we're upset and, after all, money talks, or not giving it talks just as loudly.

VarsityShop wrote:Since the arrival of the two donated full size horses, can anyone name how Peruna's role as changed "one iota"? Please do not list what the full size horses do or don't do, but list any duties that Peruna did before that he does not do now. Thank you in advance.

Peruna is no longer the sole live mascot of SMU.

Diamond Girl wrote: Last year was the first time I have ever seen students participating and getting involved at football games. I don't know what took place to result in this.

This is the finest example of how clueless you really are. The football team is winning, and you fail to connect that to an increase in participation.

It would appear that the students care more about winning than they ever have about Peruna. That knowledge must pain you.

VarsityShop wrote:

mrydel wrote:Can anyone assure me that when the current Peruna retires or expires that he will be replaced with another of his breed? This is the question that has never been answered. Thank you in advance.

So speculation as to the future is all there is? Nothing as far as factual data or real examples of how any of Peruna's duties have changed since the addition of the full size horses?

Please answer the question, Mr. Current Athletic Regime Hack. Either your answer is unequivocally yes or no, or you do not know. Don't answer someone elses question with a question of your own. Round-a-bout crap like that only inspires doubt, anxiety, and displeasure among those who want an honest answer to a very simple question.

My answer is I have no earthly idea. I really, truly hope that there will be another 30 Perunas after this one, but with administrators at SMU making decisions, nothing is out of the realm of possibility, and that isn't a compliment.