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PonySnob wrote:
Actually he was their head coach in 1990 (3-8) & 1991 (6-6) taking over when Hatfield left after the 1989 season.

Wow. My memory sucks. It was the first game of the season. I do know that.

mrydel wrote:

PonySnob wrote:
Actually he was their head coach in 1990 (3-8) & 1991 (6-6) taking over when Hatfield left after the 1989 season.

Wow. My memory sucks. It was the first game of the season. I do know that.

Yes it was the first game of the season. He's been the head coach at Jacksonville State since 2000 and has gone 87-57 and hasn't had a losing season since 2002.

Must be the new job that is affecting your memory.

MV pony wrote:
And what happens if he does leave and SMU cannot get a decent replacement? I think I also read that a lot of potential b-ball coaches turned SMU down flat. I've learned the hard way to be careful what I wish for. So I'm wishing for a good recruiter on staff and not a new coach.

What happens if he stays and the program craters again? A lot of these June lovers aren't considering that there's a downside to keeping June. Him staying doesn't automatically mean 6-6 and a mediocre bowl ad infinitum, things could get much worse. As for recruiting, June couldn't handle Klemm so don't hold your breath on him bringing on any more good recruiters that could possibly show him up.

MV pony wrote:Thought I read somewhere that Jones played a big role in bringing Brown to the hilltop. If true, that doesn't sound as if he's checked out on SMU.

And what happens if he does leave and SMU cannot get a decent replacement? I think I also read that a lot of potential b-ball coaches turned SMU down flat. I've learned the hard way to be careful what I wish for. So I'm wishing for a good recruiter on staff and not a new coach.

Orsini couldn't run a middle school hoops coaching search. He was atrocious at it.

Hello to all:
I did not read all the 7 pages but do have this to say.

It would serve both parties well if June announced the new head coach, One on his staff (like Mason) keep Hal Mumme and we go forward with recruiting,

that would achieve absolutely NOTHING. The assistants ARE the PROBLEM

ponyte wrote:Must be the new job that is affecting your memory.

What new job? Maybe that who has been calling asking where I was.

I apologize for the lengthy posts today...

I brought up the money issue earlier and I think it is something we need to keep in mind. But let's set that aside for the moment. Here are two more things that really have me worried.

1) Let's be honest with ourselves for just a moment. SMU is not a first class job. There are at least 50 jobs in the country as good or better. This is significantly better than before JJ got here, but not a great job still. We are blinded by our love for SMU. If JJ decides to leave or is pushed out the door - what are the tools at our disposal to attract a high caliber replacement? Money? Sure if the COC can be talked into flipping the bill, but what else? Remember Eric Dickerson was instrumental in selling SMU to JJ. I am very, very worried that the only candidates we could/will attract are guys desperate to become a HC (and will take any job), has beens, or some fly weight that won't move the needle forward. We already have the devil we know, but is the grass actually going to be greener?

2) My second fear is that JJ retires at the end of the January. This will run off our current crop of recruits because they won't know what to expect. All of the top HC coaching prospects will have either committed to keeping their current position for another year or will have taken another job. Think this can't happen? JJ is renowned for his loyalty to his friends and staff. This would ensure that they (or most of them) will have a job for another year. Where would that leave us and our ability to recruit? We would either have a coach no one else in the country wanted, a coach labeled interim HC (probably Mason or Mumme) or welcome HC Mason/Mumme and their 3 year contract.

Full disclosure:
I was a JJ supporter until Tulane last season. That was my last straw. The poor on field effort, lack of discipline (stupid penalties), the apparent poor game preparation/in game management and stagnate recruiting (which I defended for the first 4 1/2 years) has just worn me down. Still, I try to be reasonable and a big picture guy. A change is needed. If the current staff cannot or will not make changes to improve their process/product. Then the change needs to come from above and be more dramatic.

Look - I get the fear of moving backwards. None of us want to go back to that. It is a miracle SMU has any fans after that walk in the desert. I laugh at all the [deleted] going on at UT right now with their whopping 2 losses - which might reach 4 or 5. Anyone can be a fan of that kind of team. It takes a true die hard to have hung in there for your school through our 25 years before June got us to just average. Its telling we are still excited about bad bowls.

But average is not enough - and eventually we can all see we will run out of gas if we don't get in a decent conference. We need to take a chance on a new crew - and that is going to mean the COC ponying up again which is a tough decision I am glad I don't have to make.

And to shed some light on the overhead - nothing screams out of touch as much as using a 50 year old machine to explain that our best players were Bennet's and Klemm's. Of course - what you can say for June is he gets the most out of the least and seems to always have done that. He is a good coach - but it takes more, and a monkey can figure that out. He has not helped himself with his stubborn attitude, his general shunning of all things SMU, and being a not real fun guy. It adds to the impression he doesn't care.

Thank him - pay him 6.5/10ths of next years money and lets go get a young-ish football-smart coach with head coaching experience, a ton of energy and a huge chip on his shoulder - and a great staff ready to kick [deleted]. I'd take my chances with that - its what college football is suppose to be about - emotion and passion.

The amount of copeland-lover june-apologist types are really making me question continuing to support the program. I couldn't support another program, but with fans that dont want to be a legit program, and a school that doesn't seem to want to be a legit program, what the hell am I doing here?

couch 'em wrote:The amount of copeland-lover june-apologist types are really making me question continuing to support the program. I couldn't support another program, but with fans that dont want to be a legit program, and a school that doesn't seem to want to be a legit program, what the hell am I doing here?

Feel free to leave. We certainly don't need that attitude.

gostangs wrote:Look - I get the fear of moving backwards. None of us want to go back to that. It is a miracle SMU has any fans after that walk in the desert. I laugh at all the [deleted] going on at UT right now with their whopping 2 losses - which might reach 4 or 5. Anyone can be a fan of that kind of team. It takes a true die hard to have hung in there for your school through our 25 years before June got us to just average. Its telling we are still excited about bad bowls.

To answer you (in no particular order):

It doesn't take a brave person to be Whorens Fan...

I am not afraid of moving backwards. What I am afraid of is implosion and ending up back in the Pye years.

We don't live/work inside the athletic department, so we don't really know what they are thinking. I want to know that the guy behind the wheel of the S.S. Mustang takes these into consideration, even if only in his own head. To put it simply... Is he playing checkers or chess? How many times has the school given the impression that they just don't give a damn.

JJ has become a hugely divisive figure for PonyFans. Even ardent JJ supporters realize that something needs to change. Everything from his methodologies to his employment should be on the table. Do we have an exit plan if needed? Can we afford it? Or are we at the mercy of JJ? Because god knows how much he loves us (Maryland and ASU).

I was too stupid to leave before, it is significantly better than even money, that I am too stupid stupid to leave now.

Mustangsabu wrote:

couch 'em wrote:The amount of copeland-lover june-apologist types are really making me question continuing to support the program. I couldn't support another program, but with fans that dont want to be a legit program, and a school that doesn't seem to want to be a legit program, what the hell am I doing here?

Feel free to leave. We certainly don't need that attitude.

Actually he is right. We buy season tickets for 25 years and it seams like people are happy being mediocre.

couch 'em wrote:The amount of copeland-lover june-apologist types are really making me question continuing to support the program. I couldn't support another program, but with fans that dont want to be a legit program, and a school that doesn't seem to want to be a legit program, what the hell am I doing here?

I wonder this frequently. Following our football team often seems like a waste of time. Particularly those of us on PF.com daily...