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Even with a clause allowing the league to dump them in a few years if they donΓÇÖt bring value.

One reason it failed is how pathetic the other American-to-Big 12 programs have been, except for Houston MBB.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/650566 ... alignment/

SMU was fortunate to have immediately added value to the ACC in what was a relatively down year for the conference and Stanford & Cal at least brought "ACC late night" games to the east coast. Not sure what value Memphis adds but they have been a consistently above average fball/bball school

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... om-school/

Well bless their hearts... Memphis would have been a good fit for the "Bighead" 12

Pro tip: avoid the inclusion of a number in your conference name.

I actually feel bad for Memphis. As Charleston Pony said, they have consistently punched above their weight in football and basketball. They deserve to move up to a power conference.

Very sad. Big 12 is a knuckehead conference. This proves it. Memphis
deserves a shot. Life is not fair.

highlander wrote:I actually feel bad for Memphis. As Charleston Pony said, they have consistently punched above their weight in football and basketball. They deserve to move up to a power conference.

I feel bad for Tulane, who have won a fair amount and are also a respectable institution in a world-class city.

Memphis, in comparison, have won a fair amount.

Dukie wrote:

highlander wrote:I actually feel bad for Memphis. As Charleston Pony said, they have consistently punched above their weight in football and basketball. They deserve to move up to a power conference.

I feel bad for Tulane, who have won a fair amount and are also a respectable institution in a world-class city.

Memphis, in comparison, have won a fair amount.

Tulane has been good in football over the last 4-5 years, but before that they were occasionally mediocre, and often terrible. Tulane's basketball team has not been to the NIT since 2000, although this year they went to the Crown tournament, which I guess is on par with the NIT(?). Not sure how good they are with non-revenue sports. Also, I have heard that Tulane's facilities are lacking.

The city of Memphis is not on par with NOLA, but UMemphis has been much better at football and basketball over the last 25 years -- way better than us!

highlander wrote:Tulane has been good in football over the last 4-5 years, but before that they were occasionally mediocre, and often terrible. Tulane's basketball team has not been to the NIT since 2000, although this year they went to the Crown tournament, which I guess is on par with the NIT(?). Not sure how good they are with non-revenue sports. Also, I have heard that Tulane's facilities are lacking.

The city of Memphis is not on par with NOLA, but UMemphis has been much better at football and basketball over the last 25 years -- way better than us!

I was speaking only of football, as basketball seems almost entirely irrelevant to conference realignment. And yes, Memphis has had a slightly better recent history, though Tulane has a higher and more recent high point: MemphisΓÇÖs only AAC championship team (2019) lost by 14 in the Cotton Bowl, while TulaneΓÇÖs 2022 AAC champions stormed back to beat USC. IΓÇÖm not saying Tulane has the better overall recent results but yeah, theyΓÇÖre comparable.

Dukie wrote:

highlander wrote:I actually feel bad for Memphis. As Charleston Pony said, they have consistently punched above their weight in football and basketball. They deserve to move up to a power conference.

I feel bad for Tulane, who have won a fair amount and are also a respectable institution in a world-class city.

Memphis, in comparison, have won a fair amount.

Memphis has MAJOR violent crime problems, but so does every American city of any size. If not for that crime, Memphis would have better economic opportunity, as it did when Boss Crump ran things and kept crime down.

Memphis hasn't just won fair amount in both revenue sports, but it also has a MUCH larger fan base than Tulane. Memphis has never been in a Major conference but has had a dozen or so years when its basketball has averaged 15K or more per game. No other school has done that, except maybe New Mexico. Memphis also has had years emerging around 55K for football. Put Memphis in the Big 12, nd it will draw even more ticket buyers.

Graceland Tar Heel wrote:

Dukie wrote:

highlander wrote:I actually feel bad for Memphis. As Charleston Pony said, they have consistently punched above their weight in football and basketball. They deserve to move up to a power conference.

I feel bad for Tulane, who have won a fair amount and are also a respectable institution in a world-class city.

Memphis, in comparison, have won a fair amount.

Memphis has MAJOR violent crime problems, but so does every American city of any size. If not for that crime, Memphis would have better economic opportunity, as it did when Boss Crump ran things and kept crime down.

Memphis hasn't just won fair amount in both revenue sports, but it also has a MUCH larger fan base than Tulane. Memphis has never been in a Major conference but has had a dozen or so years when its basketball has averaged 15K or more per game. No other school has done that, except maybe New Mexico. Memphis also has had years emerging around 55K for football. Put Memphis in the Big 12, nd it will draw even more ticket buyers.

Not sure that crime matters much in this conversation, and basketball doesnΓÇÖt, eitherΓÇömaybe it would help our schools or Kansas as a tiebreaker, but it just doesnΓÇÖt much move the needle for almost any other school. Of course, weΓÇÖre arguing about who is the tallest remaining little person in G5, reallyΓÇöand remember that IΓÇÖm not arguing that Tulane is superior on the metrics, just that itΓÇÖs comparable. Regardless, your numbers are beyond stale, at best. Last season the Tigers won the AAC and made the NCAAs, while also drawing crowds that would have fit in Moody:

https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/ ... 886555007/

In the current Liberty Bowl renovation, Memphis has removed 25% of their seats for a party deck.
Current big time hoops recruit, Sincere Parker, arrested for assault.
Rumors continue to swirl that the FedEx Forums primary tenant, the Memphis Grizzlies, could be gone in two years.
Basketball attendance at UM hoops games down of late - haven't drawn over 7000 at home since '19-20..was 8900 prior. Reason = people say its the team (went 29-6 last year?!?) and the "challenges" of evening travel in and out of Downtown Memphis.
Memphis is the 276th ranked school in the US per US News and World Report.
PS: Since '13-'14, Mustang basketball is 13-8 versus the mighty Memphis State Tigers.
PSS: Their fanbase strongly believes they are ACC worthy.
Nothing screams "let us join your conference" like this program.......

NOLA has a slightly higher murder rate than Memphis, but we're splitting hairs here. You really can't go wrong with either.

Dukie wrote:

highlander wrote:Tulane has been good in football over the last 4-5 years, but before that they were occasionally mediocre, and often terrible. Tulane's basketball team has not been to the NIT since 2000, although this year they went to the Crown tournament, which I guess is on par with the NIT(?). Not sure how good they are with non-revenue sports. Also, I have heard that Tulane's facilities are lacking.

The city of Memphis is not on par with NOLA, but UMemphis has been much better at football and basketball over the last 25 years -- way better than us!

I was speaking only of football, as basketball seems almost entirely irrelevant to conference realignment. And yes, Memphis has had a slightly better recent history, though Tulane has a higher and more recent high point: MemphisΓÇÖs only AAC championship team (2019) lost by 14 in the Cotton Bowl, while TulaneΓÇÖs 2022 AAC champions stormed back to beat USC. IΓÇÖm not saying Tulane has the better overall recent results but yeah, theyΓÇÖre comparable.

Remember Memphis in Conference USA? They were the punching bag of the league –– and that's when we were bad. Their success has been very recent in the grand scheme of things.

And while Tulane is a highly respected R1 university whereas Memphis' academics ... would fit will in the Big 12. So in my mind, if Big 12 was trying to raise their profile, Tulane would be the better pick, because I think attendance would grow in proportion to the relevance of the conference. Although nobody at ESPN cares, NOLA would also provide better regional alignment.

PerunaPunch wrote:
Remember Memphis in Conference USA? They were the punching bag of the league –– and that's when we were bad. Their success has been very recent in the grand scheme of things.

And while Tulane is a highly respected R1 university whereas Memphis' academics ... would fit will in the Big 12. So in my mind, if Big 12 was trying to raise their profile, Tulane would be the better pick, because I think attendance would grow in proportion to the relevance of the conference. Although nobody at ESPN cares, NOLA would also provide better regional alignment.

I didn't realize it but you're right -- they sucked in CUSA. in 17 seasons in CUSA they had a .373 winning percentage. But they have done much better since the formation of the AAC (2013). They were bad in 2013, going 3-9. But from 2014 onwards they have been very good -- a combined 99-43 ( 0.697 winning percentage). No losing seasons, and only one 6-6 season! Very impressive.

Tulane, on the other hand, was really bad from 1996 thru 2021, going a combined 118-193 (0.379). They were in CUSA from 1996 to 2013, and then joined the American beginning in 2014. For the last 3 years they have been great - a combined 32-10.

So Memphis' success has been recent, but not as recent as Tulane's.

For comparison, our beloved Mustangs have been great since 2019: 54-22! Before that? Well let's see... From 1996 (the year we joined the WAC) to 2018, we were a combined 101-174, with a winning percentage of 0.367. Worse than Memphis or Tulane during their respective "dark days".