Makes Me Sick At My Stomach

[tristatecoog]

rodrod, are TX higher ed issues a hobby or part of your daytime job? Very interesting insight.

Which TX universities do you believe have the most momentum?

[SoCal_Pony]

Friar did not call for Turner's head. He said it was a huge screw up.

Count me as one who was greatly disappointed when Gov Clements announced a $100 million gift, the largest in Dallas' history, and it wasn't directed towards SMU.

Bill Clements, for better or worse, was one of our most high profile alumni (even though he was a drop out). He was an extraordinary person who caused extraordinary pain to our university. How fitting that his final major act in life could have been an act of Redemption.

Did SMU screw up? we'll never know, but Turner or somebody should get to the bottom of this to make sure it doesn't happen again (assuming a screw up). We have many more affluent alumni at their twilight years. And if someone did screw up, yes, a head should roll. The stakes are simply too high.

[PonyKai]

Doesn't that saint owe the University for his monumental screw-ups in continuing the pay-for-play initiative well after we had been caught numerous times by the NCAA under the near criminally insane belief that "winding the program down" was the right thing to do?

The hell with a med school. It ought to be $100M in reparations to the revenue sports and a formal apology for being such a key cog in the wheel of d!cking over the University.

Maybe my comments are misplaced.

[Grant Carter]

He did give money to the university. Is the requirement that 100% of the money he donates goes to the school or he is in the wrong and someone should be fired? 50%? Where do those criticizing draw the line for what is acceptable and what is not?

[rodrod5]

rodrod, are TX higher ed issues a hobby or part of your daytime job? Very interesting insight.

Which TX universities do you believe have the most momentum?

hobby

as for momentum that is a good question

so many schools have so many different things to work on and work towards and they are coming from so many different places

first I don't view academics the same way as athletics as a "contest" or "winners and losers" or that for one school to benefit it has to come at the expense of another school especially peer schools or other schools in the area

a university can take a faculty member from here and one from there and one from over there and mot really put a huge hurt on the universities losing those faculty members while at the same time gaining a great deal for themselves

also a university can do it internally if a faculty member at SMU or UH cured cancer or aids or came up with real nuclear fusion well that did not come at the expense of any other university (though many would have wanted to be the ones to do so), but it would be a massive boost to the university that actually did it....same with a great work or art or even a genre of art or musical compositions ect

I would say that UTD, UH and Texas Tech have a real chance to make a name in the future

SMU, TCU and Baylor as well and I realize that some or many on this forum wish to distance from the other two, but the reality is I think they will always be closely associated and grouped with each other

Texas State, UTA and yes Texas A&M and even UT Austin can make some things happen as well...potential underdog candidates Incarnate Word and UTSA

UTD is finally serious about raising private money, the have the undergrad quality, they have all the right programs in place and plans to add more of the right ones, they do lack the arts, liberal arts and humanities reputation and that is hard to get going as a public university especially one that is concentrating on other areas, but as they grow larger that should help them if they can retain faculty quality and build select programs

UTD does suffer from having sat dormant (for lack of a better term) so long after starting out with high hopes and they are in a metro area and a state with a lot of other things going on and with a lot of competition and existing loyalties for private dollars

UH has the leadership to go anywhere at this point and my disagreement with the "tier 1" branding is well known, but beyond that UH is doing some amazing things and they are adding in all the right places

The movement of the nursing program from Victoria to the main campus is a great move and the correct one, and the addition of more engineering degrees was the 100% correct move even though many leaders would have viewed that as a strength already and would have gone in a different direction

the AAC will work really well for both UH and SMU the east coast exposure for SMU is going to be a major boost for them and SMU has broken out of the "Texas centric" mold as far as student recruitment, but they have not as far as reputation.....The group of schools in the AAC is strong for association with UConn, Tulane, Tulsa and Cincy as well as Temple.......and UCF and USF have a lot of potential in the academic reputation area and if they are able to grow their reputation that looks good overall

I am always leery of athletics as a mover of academics, but the association is always there and always will be period the real issue is you have to move your academics in a meaningful way as you move your academics or you risk losing the opportunity and even having it backfire with "all athletics no academics" and it is much more difficult to meaningfully move academics for the long haul VS athletics

Texas Tech has been churning up the private dollars lately and looks like the will continue to do so and they have done some nice things with those dollars.....they need to recruit some more faculty and they have with 3 new national academy members in just the recent past and I would imagine they are looking for a few more....UH at 12 is nice UTD is at 8 now which is a recent jump and Tech is now at 4 which is not enough, but better then before

Tech has about rounded out their dorm needs and they are in line for their desired growth now they need to boost undergrad metrics.....not that they are terrible, but once facilities and dorms are in place and growth is where they want it they can make a move on quality of students......they have a pretty good graduation rate, but bumping that further will be meaningful, but it will not be easy

UH really needs the graduation rate boost, but they are coming at it from a different angle with the ability to significantly increase freshman entrance requirements

SMU probably does need to funnel money into engineering and the natural/hard sciences and they appear to be doing so.......this should bump research expenditures significantly as well and that is a help......being in with Cincy and UConn that both have more research going on and UCF and USF that are both growing their significantly gives the boost of association because when you talk about what one is doing others will probably be talked about as well......just like hey A&M and UM are both AAU and now in the SEC SEC SEC.....AAU AAU AAU......even though no other university in the SEC SEC SEC changed a damn thing academically for the most part they have just changed who they are associated with

I think the business reputation at SMU is more than fine I think a boost in the law school would make a difference especially with law schools getting so much discussion lately, but that might not be "popular" or viewed by some as the right area of focusnessnessness, but in my opinion sometimes the time to move is when others are lagging or standing still or when the talk is about a area of study even if in a negative way......I would say the same for UT Austin and UH as well UT probably needs to cut class size, maintain faculty size and library resources, hold tuition steady with private dollars and push solidly into the top 10.....UH needs to do the same thing cut the bottom fat that will not land a high paying job while maintaining total resources which makes a lower student to faculty ratio, more library resources per student and boost incoming student metrics and they need to push into the top 50 solidly probably closer to #35 than 50......SMU closer to #25......and the same for Baylor as well and Texas Tech needs to push into the top 50 and they probably could do it the easiest IMO just by cutting some of their "give them a chance" admissions that they have which is great when everyone gets a job, but terrible when it is hard to get a job and your program needs the best reputation possible for ALL of your graduates

pushing the law school higher for SMU would force people to look and say "is that the right thing to do" and then evaluate the other aspects of SMU and then when they see the freshman metrics, the national recruiting, the financial aid available and the other programs they would probably think "oh I did not know they had already done so much in other areas"

I think SMU could really do the exact same thing with the fine arts as well and even the liberal arts and humanities.....pick a couple of areas, fund the hell out of them and then really excel in those couple of areas while being really good in several more

I would say that IMO is the toughest issue for SMU is to move all things equally.....if you move engineering significantly and research, but arts and humanities and liberal arts hold steady (even though I think SMU does "good" at those areas) you run the risk of people thinking you have actually let those areas slip.......when your research and say 2 areas of engineering really take a jump in reputation/productivity and one of your fine arts programs does the same well you are "well rounded and doing all things well" and that carries over to everything else....it is a tough task and can involve picking "winners" and some feeling like "losers" even if they are still funded just as before or even slightly better than before......everyone wants to be the superstar

TCU and Baylor face the same issues.....TCU has actually continued to elevate their business program, but without the law school or another "talked about" professional school like SMU and Baylor have it gets them less attention overall......the Big 12 helps both of them and recent athletics success helps Baylor for sure, but again I believe you really have to move academics when your athletics gets hot or you face a major lost opportunity and even the risk of a backlash

TCU probably needs to pump some money into music and they need to advertise their nursing much more and then they need to expand their engineering programs as well......Baylor needs to expand their engineering as well and their research profile just like TCU.......if Baylor and TCU had the engineering "foundation" in place that SMU does now they would be in a very good place, but they are both still in the phase of "engineering program with areas of specialization" while SMU is already in the phase of individual departments for each program......for the most part if you are at a quality university and the program is ABET accredited in an area of study that needs that accreditation the degree has value no matter which setup it comes from, but from an academic reputation and research point of view SMU is in a better position to move forward and they have done a lot of the ground work......Baylor has some other health related programs they could really push forward as well......IMO Baylor has raised a ton of cash lately, but they have spent a ton of cash as well and I think they spent it wisely for the most part, but they did not "make enough noise" about raising that money"

SMU is powering through raising the cash as is Texas Tech and both have done well to get the word out and I would actually say that SMU has powered through it even better than Tech even though most would say "well SMU is in dallas and has wealthy alumni ect", but the MAJOR donations are just so impressive.....of course Tech has knocked some home runs as well

Texas State and UTA both have some potential, both have been growing probably a bit at the expense of freshman metrics, but that was probably the right decision IMO.......Texas State actually has a pretty good graduation rate and I think that both of them could bump freshman class in a meaningful way once they have reached the growth and size they desire to be......but it will take private resources and UTA especially has been terrible at that and Texas State has done OK lately or probably better than OK, but unfortunately they just ended an endowment campaign and you usually don't start another right back up after ending one and they still have some things they could do quickly in a meaningful way of the resources were there

UTA has all the programs in place for the most part with engineering, architecture (so up and so down as a career field, but still so "looked at"), but UTA just has no programs that really have a huge reputation and even their engineering that is strong is so overshadowed by UT, A&M, UH, Tech, UTD and the like even just in Texas and then SMU and TCU as universities overall and then the inability to really separate from the north Texas states of the world because they are not raising private cash, they have not bumped freshman class metrics in a meaningful way and they still want some more growth and they especially have not built a "college feel" (something that UTD and UH really need to work on and are working on as is UTA finally)

the UTD endowment campaign ends pretty soon, they have done well, UTA has changed presidents after a long ride by the last guy and I see all the signs and read "interwebtube rumors" of a capital campaign coming and I would imagine it will happen sooner rather than later with UTD winding down (I think this was a major factor in UTA waiting) and with TCU having ended theirs a couple of years ago and even with north Texas state about to end theirs (oh they had one really who knew oh wait no one knew for the most part haha) which I don't think was a major factor like UTD having one was, but I think with all the private philanthropy and foundations in dallas it is wise to pick a time when you are one of the few having a campaign VS one of the many

if UTA can pull off a nice amount of money they could really make some changes.....at least get their business program into the bottom of some rankings, get all of their engineering programs bumped up, hire 4-5 national academy members, get their nursing program into national rankings and bump up one other program or two and that helps......improve freshman metrics with recruiting and get an honors college that is at least mentioned as well......UTA has the foundation for several of those things it is a matter of doing it

Texas State lacks the engineering foundation, but they have hit the right areas and they need their new engineering building badly and they need 1 or 2 more engineering departments......they need to make their already well known geography program to where it is KNOWN instead of just known to those in the know and same with aquatics.....they have a great "college atmosphere" already and they have a pretty good graduation rate and they are a popular choice and have been growing so they can probably bump freshman metrics at some point and time as easily as any university in Texas...they REALLY need to address faculty to student ratio and I am not sure what it is with their formula funding that leaves that so out of whack compared to UH, Tech or even north Texas state and UTSA, but they need to address it and they know they do.....best I can tell it is just the mix of degree programs especially at the undergrad level and that is hard to address as you cut programs and add others and grow total students and even more so with limited private dollars

their growth in research is impressive for the most part and especially from where they started and considering their engineering programs are young and crowded and need space......their business program actually has a nice endowment and I am a bit surprised it has not crept into the very bottom of some rankings, but I think with UT, A&M, SMU, TCU, Baylor, UH, Tech, UTD now and Rice at the graduate level all in Texas well there is no "creeping in" left to do they are going to need $15 to $20 million more to get there and with so many other need who knows....possibly if they continue to grow engineering and natural/hard sciences and they can eventually bump admissions metrics for business and cut the size of the program overall while maintaining available resources they can do something

A&M really has so much more to do......they could do so much more in the way of arts and liberal arts and humanities even if they keep their overall programs small.....they should just go round up about 100 really smart freaks from the west mall at UT and put them in a protective cage at A&M like zoo animals and then aggies can throw rotten fruits and vegetables from their hort program at them and the freaks can throw flowers (also from the Benz School of Design at A&M) back and they will have a real arts and liberal arts and humanities program and all would be well....the 10,000 engineering students plan or is it 10,000 MORE engineering students plan .....really.....please no A&M is big enough already and if they get bigger they might as well become ASU and no one wants 70,000 milkmen, painted overalls and march in line guys roaming around on the east bank of the Brazos doing their little hand signal gun things and eating list of who is in line for tickets to the football game

bump up the business program, bump up all of the engineering programs (no not in size damn it Sharp), bump up the marine biology program, get the maritime academy in line and back to something to be proud of and something relevant for today (they are trying I believe), get the life sciences the respect they deserve, bump up arts, liberal arts and humanities even if that means more weed smokers on campus (aggies actually smoke out a ton they just hide it better than UT Students and lets not talk about Baylor students especially the girls drinking ) and get that law school into the top 50 in about 5 years and A&M will have done something....oh yea bump graduation rates some and freshman metrics as well instead of trying to outgrow USF, UCF, FIU, FAU and ASU

Texas actually has potential as well.....they really need to bump all of their business into the top 10 and their law school as well......Music has a ton of resources since the 50 million donation a few years back, but that is just so hard to advance and same with other fine arts, but they are trying......the med school is huge that really rounds out the university and it will add to the body of faculty and to total research dollars and it adds students without cramping other areas of study.....they cold bump an engineering program or two and their geosciences as well.....they raised 3 billion or they will have done so soon, but they never had very many major donations that entire time......the 50 million to music, some to the business school that will go towards buildings, the Dell money for the medical school that is meaningful, but it is for a new med school not the rest of the university and then just a ton of smaller donations and probably a ton of life trust and future dollars and pledges which are great and meaningful, but I would bet on a comparative basis SMU had as many 8 figure donations in their campaign as UT did and those are what moves something fundamentally and quickly.....and of course it is just so hard to move freshman metrics right now with the 10% and even at 7%.......those student can draw a surfboard on the ACT or SAT scantron and still be admitted though I am sure most actually shoot for a high score because they might have other choices as well, but there are MANY that want UT and they are top 7% and they are in and they party all night before the SAT or ACT and who cares because there is not just a ton of financial aid to gain from UT as well or because they have those cost already covered.....the 10% rule and even 7% for UT just hurts it hurts UT, it hurts A&M and it hurts Tech and UH and it will hurt others down the road as well......they need to at least put some type of halfway decent SAT or ACT score requirement on as well for schools like UT and A&M and even UH and Tech soon that have reached the growth and size they desire........I find it laughable that someone in the top 10% or top 7% can't pull off a decent SAT or ACT score as well unless they went to moron high in idiotsville and lets be honest is that who we want wasting space at UT or A&M or even Uh and Tech here soon.....pass....

[East Coast Mustang]

Did rodrod just write the longest post in the history of PonyFans?

Interesting stuff, though. Thanks for sharing.

[ponyboy]

I've never understood why we should care about how we are doing compared to others. And why AAU ought to be a goal. You need to serve your constituencies, in which case a Richland College is just as good as a Rice. In other words, what value, in and of itself, is a higher US News and World Report ranking?

[PonyKai]

In other words, what value, in and of itself, is a higher US News and World Report ranking?

Every time SMU hits me up for money, so, every time they speak to me, they say it makes my degree worth more. Pretty sure that's the entirety of their pitch, at least to me.

[birddogger]

I may be out of my league here, but why is there so much confidence that a med school would be SMU's brass ring? I can't say that I would encourage my kids to attend med school. I know a lot of unhappy MDs. Many are so fed up with the paperwork and low reimbursement rates forced upon them that they are seriously considering walking away from the profession. Many are predicting that they or the new crop of med school grads will be little more than glorified government employees.

With this rapidly changing landscape in healthcare, how could SMU reasonably justify the investment in a grass-roots build out of a med school, or even a major investment in one? Or is this really not about educating medical professionals, but rather adding another school to the trophy case?

[Mustangs_Maroons]

I've never understood why we should care about how we are doing compared to others. And why AAU ought to be a goal. You need to serve your constituencies, in which case a Richland College is just as good as a Rice. In other words, what value, in and of itself, is a higher US News and World Report ranking?

Is this a serious question? Maybe I'm crazy but I would want my kid to go to a top university vs. community college. Higher rankings means better career opportunities, better network after your career, better professors, better classmates, better infrastructure, better everything.

Now, if we're talking about the difference between a school ranked #3 vs. #8, ok, then you have to look at particular specialties, location, etc. Does a community college serve a purpose? Sure does, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't then care and that rankings are meant to reflect those very differences.

Rankings do matter and AAU status is beneficial since it leads to research money, professors that one can bring on, etc

[CalallenStang]

I may be out of my league here, but why is there so much confidence that a med school would be SMU's brass ring? I can't say that I would encourage my kids to attend med school. I know a lot of unhappy MDs. Many are so fed up with the paperwork and low reimbursement rates forced upon them that they are seriously considering walking away from the profession. Many are predicting that they or the new crop of med school grads will be little more than glorified government employees.

With this rapidly changing landscape in healthcare, how could SMU reasonably justify the investment in a grass-roots build out of a med school, or even a major investment in one? Or is this really not about educating medical professionals, but rather adding another school to the trophy case?

It's about research $$$$, which lead to higher rankings and AAU membership, which lead to more research $$$$

[tristatecoog]

Very interesting, rodrod.

I don't have nearly as much breadth of exposure to TX schools, but...momentum wise, I'd say:

1. SMU
2. UTD
3. UH
4. Tech
5. UTSA

UT and A&M seem to be slipping in the rankings while Rice and TCU are holding firm. Baylor may have some recent momentum but am not sure if it's with smarties or not. Funny you'd mention UNT. I noticed that a year ago they had raised 85% of its $200MM campaign before going public with it. UTD is also seeking to raise $200MM. Hmm, both are going after the same amount. Not sure about the time frames but I probably ranked UTD too high based upon familiarity and high test scores. Basically, SMU has really impressed me with its move up the rankings overall but seems to have stagnated in business and law in the 2010's. Engineering seems to be improving. I'm quite impressed by Christensen and the programs merits relative to larger state school offerings.

[gostangs]

the higher US News ranking is basically everything. It is what the education community values. It helps you recruit better professors and students, which lead to everything else. US News is the metric - not AAU or anything else.

[Pony^]

the higher US News ranking is basically everything. It is what the education community values. It helps you recruit better professors and students, which lead to everything else. US News is the metric - not AAU or anything else.

I predict a long rodrod5 rebuttal to this post -- coming soon

[ponyboy]

Is this a serious question? Maybe I'm crazy but I would want my kid to go to a top university vs. community college.

I want my kid to go to a school that best fits his skills, abilities, and interests.

But back to the topic, I still don't get why it matters how SMU does vis a vis other schools. Define a specific mission or missions -- and a specific constituency -- and fulfill that mission with excellence whether you're Chicago or Texas A&M - Corpus Christi.