Harrison twins returning to Kentucky

[Harry0569]

Yahoo has an article that says that Uk has 9 McDonalds AA on the roster next year which the average NBA team has 5. That team has the potential to really scary good.

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumo ... n-kentucky

Only 1 basketball on the court during games.

And they had 5 during their 2012 NC run. Not every Mcd AA needs to shoot 20 times per game.

[ClickClack]

How are you considering Derek Anderson and Ron Mercer busts when both avergaed double figures for their NBA career?

Again, not sure how players from the 90's are relevant to this conversation about underclassmen leaving early.

There is such a high bust rate for NBA draft picks that if 50% of Kentucky players are a success, thats pretty good.

Sure you have your Grant Hill, Elton Brand, Kyrie Irving, Boozer, Battier, Deng...but what about all the Duke busts as Harry named some...Shelden Williams, Shavlik Randolph, Trajan Langdon, Nolan Smith...also have rotation players like Gerald Henderson, McRoberts...

Not really relevant to the discussion at hand but if were talking about Kentucky NBA players, you're forgetting Antoine Walker, Tony Delk, Eric Bledsoe

[whitwiki]

Stand up has officially passed Travis bickle for best troll job of the century

[Harry0569]

Stand up has officially passed Travis bickle for best troll job of the century

Yep - plus Harry Callahan.

[StandUp]

ClickClack -
"How are you considering Derek Anderson and Ron Mercer busts when both averaged double figures for their NBA career?" "Again, not sure how players from the 90's are relevant to this conversation about underclassmen leaving early."... averaging barely double figures does not mean that you met the high expectations of a first round talent. Maybe you and I have two different standards when it comes to not meeting expectations. Terrence Jones barely scored double figures for the Houston Rockets this season, in your book maybe Terrence Jones is an All-Star I brought up Ron Mercer and Derek Anderson because they both went to Kentucky and both left early for the NBA. That was the topic, right? Do you really think that Ron Mercer, the #6 pick in the 1987 NBA Draft lived up to expectations? Ron Mercer Career 14ppg Derek Anderson Career 12ppg Give me a break.

Harry -
"so making sweeping generalizations like you have done is absurd"... I have not made any generalizations, matter of fact I listed out specific player names. Not sure what posts you are reading, but oh well, we can agree to disagree.

"We have all forgotten to include Rondo in the UK discussion btw"... We could go on and on listing players from both Kentucky and Duke. Two of the top programs in college basketball over the past 10 years. I could easily list another few Duke players. JJ Reddick... What is the point. Again, you agree with me that there are players every year that leave for the NBA before they are ready. For you to get all worked up over the spelling of Nerlens Noel's name or my opinion that Terrence Jones is overrated. For you to get worked up over my opinion that I am making sweeping generalizations about Kentucky Basketball is strange. We could have the same conversation every year about players deciding to leave early. Bottom line, getting back to the topic at hand, the Harrison Twins were by no means ready for the NBA.

Coach Cal is definitely a great recruiter, but I wouldn't exactly say that he is a great coach. His team last year was barely a Top 25 Team at the end of the regular season (even with all the talent that he had). Had his team not had the "Kentucky" history behind it, there was no way they deserved to even be in the Top 25 at the end of the regular season. Yes, Kentucky did well in the NCAA Tournament. Credit to them. I wouldn't attribute that to Coach Cal and his incredible coaching ability. I would attribute it more to his team getting hot at the right time and luck. Yes, every teams needs some luck in the NCAA Tournament. Kentucky did not overly impress with their victories in the NCAA, instead they won the games (which is all that matters at tournament time).
vs. Wichita State 78-76
vs. Louisville 74-69
vs. Michigan 75-72
vs. Wisconsin 74-73
vs. UCONN 60-54 (Lost)

With the talent on the Kentucky roster you would think that they would steamroll every team during the regular season and in the tournament. I put that on the coach. It is the job of the coach to bring out the talent in his players. Let's don't spend anytime here comparing Coach K to Coach Cal. Again, no comparison. Ask any of the NBA All-Stars who got the opportunity to play for Coach K in the Olympics. What team did Coach Cal coach, the Dominican Republic National Team? Give me a break.

Everyone else -
I am not trolling, just expressing a basketball opinion about Kentucky Basketball. I feel that every year they are overrated. Next year will be no different. Kentucky players get overhyped and many decide to come out early with little to no success in the NBA. We can agree to disagree.

[Harry0569]

THEY BEAT 3 STRAIGHT FINAL FOUR TEAMS FROM LAST YEAR? HOW IN THE [deleted] IS THAT NOT IMPRESSIVE? All of them were top 10 teams heading into the tourney. All of them were top 10 teams on KenPom. PLEASE TELL ME HOW THAT IS NOT IMPRESSIVE? IT IS IMPRESSIVE TO ME. I WAS IMPRESSED.

If Duke (fill in any other team) does that is it impressive?

I am done.

#impressive

[StandUp]

With the talent on their roster I would hope that they would win those games. Note that Kentucky didn't exactly run anyone out of the gym. See the scores in my previous post. Not exactly impressive. Lucky yes, but not impressive. They beat some good teams yes, but let's don't act like Kentucky lived up to expectations by barely winning games. Personally I was impressed by how lucky the team got in their run that they made in the NCAA Tournament (winning so many close games). I guess we all have different standards for what truly impresses us.

[Harry0569]

If they got hot, doesn't that have something to do with Coach Cal's coaching ability? They shot under 45% in 4 of their last 7 games (including under 40% in 3 of their last 7.

Going back to Cal's first year at UK (plus last 4 years at Memphis), let's see compare him with Coach K in the tourney:

Cal / K
2014 - NC Game / Lost in First Round
2013 - NIT / Elite 8
2012 - National Champs / Lost in First Round
2011 - Final Four / Sweet 16
2010 - Elite 8 / National Champs

Memphis
2009 - Sweet 16 / Sweet 16
2008 - NC Game / Second Round
2007 - Elite 8 / First Round
2006 - Elite 8 / Sweet 16

[StandUp]

"If they got hot, doesn't that have something to do with Coach Cal's coaching ability?"...
No, not really, it means that the team got hot. Thing is, give the coach from Wichita State the roster that Coach Cal had. Give Larry Brown the roster the Coach Cal had. Give Coach K the roster that Coach Cal had. My bet is that the Kentucky players would have played much better and decisively won games. No doubt that Calipari is a good recruiter, just do not think that he is a good coach. Wichita State Coach, Larry Brown, Coach K, real coaches coach their players.

[Harry0569]

With the talent on their roster I would hope that they would win those games. Note that Kentucky didn't exactly run anyone out of the gym. See the scores in my previous post. Not exactly impressive. Lucky yes, but not impressive. They beat some good teams yes, but let's don't act like Kentucky lived up to expectations by barely winning games. Personally I was impressed by how lucky the team got in their run that they made in the NCAA Tournament (winning so many close games). I guess we all have different standards for what truly impresses us.

I would say that winning 5 games in the NCAA tourney is impressive - far more so than Duke getting bounced by Mercer (GA represent).

[Harry0569]

"If they got hot, doesn't that have something to do with Coach Cal's coaching ability?"...
No, not really, it means that the team got hot. Thing is, give the coach from Wichita State the roster that Coach Cal had. Give Larry Brown the roster the Coach Cal had. Give Coach K the roster that Coach Cal had. My bet is that the Kentucky players would have played much better and decisively won games. No doubt that Calipari is a good recruiter, just do not think that he is a good coach. Wichita State Coach, Larry Brown, Coach K, real coaches coach their players.

What does get hot mean? They shot under 45% in 4 of the 7 games.

They were underdogs in every single one of those games (aside from Wisconsin), so Vegas (who is much wiser than all of us) didn't believe that they would win decisively.

[StandUp]

Mercer beating Duke. That was impressive. Credit to Mercer. UCONN winning the tournament. That was impressive. Credit to UCONN. Louisville dismantling teams in the AAC Tournament. That was impressive. Kentucky scraping by wins against quality competition, not so impressive. Good yes, lucky, but not impressive. Again, we just have different definitions of what is impressive.

[East Coast Mustang]

I think Cal is a mediocre Xs and Os coach but he took his team to the NCAA championship game this year so I can't say too much. He is the best recruiter in the game though; there's no reason his squads shouldn't be in contention every year. Losing to Robert Morris in the NIT last year was pathetic.

[whitwiki]

Kentucky all time players: http://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/colleges.cgi?college=kentucky#stats::24

Duke all time players: http://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/colleges.cgi?college=duke#stats::24


Top 250 players in career PPG (for reference): http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_per_g_career.html


The average ppg for the 2013-2014 regular season was 8.1 (min 20 games played). Not everyone can be an allstar.

[Harry0569]

Mercer beating Duke. That was impressive. Credit to Mercer. UCONN winning the tournament. That was impressive. Credit to UCONN. Louisville dismantling teams in the AAC Tournament. That was impressive. Kentucky scraping by wins against quality competition, not so impressive. Good yes, lucky, but not impressive. Again, we just have different definitions of what is impressive.

*Kenpom rankings in parenthesis

Who did L'ville (1) play in the AAC tourney? Rutgers (166), UH (125) and UCONN (8). Aside from Uconn, not a murder's row of studs

Wait didn't UK (11) beat L'ville, who you impressed you?

So Mercer (86) winning 1 game is more impressive than UK winning 5?

You're reasoning is completely [deleted] backwards.

I don't know if you just don't like UK or what, but losing two the #1 seed in the tourney (Florida (3)) by 1 was great, beating 3 straight final four teams (WSU (5), L'ville (1), Michigan (10) from 2013 is unreal, beating Wisconsin (6) and making it to the NC is pretty remarkable.

Please tell me how they got lucky on their run and please define what impressive is to you. I want to try and understand your reasoning.