US News Rankings

[CoxMustangFan]

Full time is the pure driver of all the MBA programs. I was a Pmba and going full time would have been awesome, but having a company that paid for my full costs and factoring in giving up two years of earnings would have been a 350-400k swing. I just couldn't imagine giving that up to go full time to SMU...to a top 10 school yes...but you also have to be able to get into a top 10 school!

It's a numbers game and dean is not hiding that. The Pmba and emba programs bring in the money. The ft brings in the prestige, and they really do blend pretty well together.

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I guess we'll just have to say we have slightly different perspectives and leave it at that! Those from Lockheed, GE, et al. had a unique view. It's not a well kept secret that FT rankings are the "pride and joy" of Cox and other bschools. As a few on this site know, I just finished my tour helping students apply for MBA programs and among largely discrete reasons most prospective students had for choosing an MBA included (for those I visited with):

1) Financial aid
2) Rankings
3) Skating to where the puck is going, instead of where it's at

Which group do you think SMU is targeting and which kids would you want to hire?

[RebStang]

Full time is the pure driver of all the MBA programs. I was a Pmba and going full time would have been awesome, but having a company that paid for my full costs and factoring in giving up two years of earnings would have been a 350-400k swing. I just couldn't imagine giving that up to go full time to SMU...to a top 10 school yes...but you also have to be able to get into a top 10 school!

It's a numbers game and dean is not hiding that. The Pmba and emba programs bring in the money. The ft brings in the prestige, and they really do blend pretty well together.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I guess we'll just have to say we have slightly different perspectives and leave it at that! Those from Lockheed, GE, et al. had a unique view. It's not a well kept secret that FT rankings are the "pride and joy" of Cox and other bschools. As a few on this site know, I just finished my tour helping students apply for MBA programs and among largely discrete reasons most prospective students had for choosing an MBA included (for those I visited with):

1) Financial aid
2) Rankings
3) Skating to where the puck is going, instead of where it's at

Which group do you think SMU is targeting and which kids would you want to hire?

This is an interesting thread for me. I'd love for someone to explain to me what the real learning benefit of an MBA is to a 24 or 25 year old that already has a BBA in Finance from a good school.

I get that there are networking opportunities and other "soft" benefits. Throw in the fact that the MBA from a program like SMU can get you a better job. What I want to know, though, is what those full time and even part time candidates that already have a BBA are learning that they haven't already learned in their undergraduate studies.

To explain where I'm coming from... I majored in Computer Science at SMU. I'm self taught when it comes to business but I have a passion for finance (I'm planning to take my level 1 CFA exam in June of 2015). I'm planning to start my masters next fall either at an MFin program like Georgetown (they've got the best online MFin program and my life/work situation makes that appealing) or, if that doesn't work out, an MBA with a concentration in Finance at UAB or Alabama (I live in Birmingham). For me, I see a ton of potential value in the MBA even if I have to attend my fall back program because I don't have the formal business education - I'll be learning a lot of things that I haven't ever been taught.

[CoxMustangFan]

@Reb

Happy to offer some thoughts offline if I don't cover all. Funny, I actually started as a CS major and after two years decided I didn't want to write code for a living (just wasn't a match for me). Switched to Accounting/IS and went the CPA route in my earlier days before SMU.

MBA pathing is a hard thing to do by internet chat, but simply, I suggest you consider a few key points:

- focus more on where the program is going, vs where it is today.
- have an idea what direction you want life to take you
- most of your value from your MBA will come 10 years after graduation (+/-). There are exceptions.

Also, the CFA is not a substitute for a quality MBA program. Too many in my CFA cohort looked at the CFA as a proxy. Nope. Both have distict value. Also, not sold on the 1-yr MFin programs. Was likely a good move for Nash since some bonehead couldn't help him with a job!

As far as "what do I learn". Depends on the program. Spend time around financials/accounting, but that could just be the accounting dork in me. Tech guys I hire have to have some understanding of metrics and financials to move up. Design your program to skate where the puck is going: financial statements, SOX, auditing, capital structure, entrepreneurship, big data, etc.

A top 25 MBA isn't for everyone, nor does it need to be. Depends on how you answered the questions above. Many I know reach out to me because they want CPG. Getting your [deleted] to Kellogg is the clear play for someone able to make the investment. If you're looking for an IB job, smart play is to go all in and go top 15. I know many that get there from SMU, but the path will be a bit harder for the average guy. Building a corp finance resume doesn't necessarily require a top MBA, though doesn't hurt. Just depends.

Last, I wouldn't discount the "soft stuff". Hands down biggest advantage of my time at SMU was the soft stuff. Was able to land on Boards, got a job via networking, made some great contacts, etc. On the flip side, some of my friends went MIA the day after graduation. I question the wisdom of their investment.

In short, my honest advice would be to table your decision until you have better clarity and have assessed your options. Not sure if you can pull everything into focus in time for Fall. Good luck!

[Mustangs_Maroons]

in terms of increasing our apps, is SMU even part of the common application? How hard do we market the university state-wide and on a national basis? We need to get our name out there and promote more applications. This is a must.

[gostangs]

something folks need to understand is that USNWR uses a running 5 year look back average. So one year of spiked application increases moves you some - but not that much. That is why it takes a long time to move much once you get near the top of this list. THe nuances between 45 and 60 are pretty small, and they play out over multiple years.

Our applications have gone up markedly in the last three years, but we have more work to do. Also we are just now being seen as on par with UT, and above A&M. Until five years ago, why would any Texan pay 4X as much to go to SMU which was ranked below both of those schools. Now we can make the case, and think that will help our in state applications.

Making the NCAA tournament would help a ton also - but that spike might not show up until 16, and would have to be sustained for a few years to help.

Our incoming freshman class has an average SAT of 1310. That is better than every school in Texas except Rice. So next time some UT blowhard tries to academic smack talk you - lay that one on him.

[tristatecoog]

I didn't realize it was a five year look back. That makes TCU's and UMass's 20 point surge to #73 or so even more remarkable.

"I'd love for someone to explain to me what the real learning benefit of an MBA is to a 24 or 25 year old that already has a BBA in Finance from a good school."

I've done admissions counseling and lots of MBA recruiting so I'll give it a shot. If you have a Finance BBA from a top school and are in the career field you desire, you don't need an MBA. Not that many Wharton BBAs go back for MBAs. However, let's say you're a Wharton BBA in IB and like most people in IB, you want to go into private equity. If you aren't good enough to get plucked away from a top bank and directly hired, it may behoove you to get some biz dev experience after your three years and then go for a top MBA.

I had a Finance BBA and after a couple years in sales, I got a job as an valuation analyst. My desire was to live in the Northeast and work in IB. I had the stats and got into Columbia so off I went. Even a guy from UH can get into IB from Columbia. After five years, I moved back to TX. During the MBA, I learned a good bit about corporate finance, private equity and other detailed stuff plus learned from my peers.

I worked in a big CPG company doing corporate finance after moving to Dallas. The vast majority of the financial analysts we hired left to get an MBA. Most seemed to do so because they could get into a good school and/or wanted a break after three years of FT work. They might be making $70-80K but they would advance their career by leaving. You could also go PT but few took that route because the company only pays $5K per year in tuition. That said, some do it anyway because it is still a validating stamp and you have an "option" to leave when the MBA is complete.

I am taking Level II of the CFA next summer. Those at top schools with some CFA credentials are highly sought after. However, if your goal is to be a portfolio manager, or analyst at a buyside shop, you still have to be uber passionate about the field. Nail the grades, do an internship and be a geek about investment strategies and picking apart financial statements.

SMU Cox is a great option for people wanting to change careers or get a better job in their current industry. Only 1-2 per year will do IB or premier strategy consulting, but if you work the network, get good grades and focus, you'll get a fine gig and get a very nice ROI.

[CoxMustangFan]

Good post, Coog! Some really good Columbia folks here in Dallas. A bit of a closed off network, but good.

[NewAgeMustange]

Dang, making me feel like I'm really missing out on the SMU MBA.

So...........How does everyone feel about an UTD MBA? No don't comment on that one.

I'm glad that our rankings are increasing I bet that it will increase more in the coming year if both the SAT scores are increasing and if we start decreasing our acceptance rate.

[Planter's Punch]

Looks like the Education School is really growing: http://www.smu.edu/News/2014/simmons-gr ... 12sept2014

They have stepped it up with research expenditures, and have started to really connect to the Dallas (and beyond) community. Given the net worth of the late Mr. Simmons, and Annette being an alumni, it will be interesting to see how much she helps the school grow, given how much they have already donated. Hard to believe there used to be those tiny buildings behind Fondren Library.

[dirtysouthpony]

Great info guys. My kid is finishing up in Poli Sci at Dedman this year, and he wants to apply to the Masters of Finance program to facilitate his transition into the business world. Is the placement rate pretty decent for M of Finance? He wants to work for a couple of years, and then go back to pursue an MBA/JD. He is passionate about law, but he thinks the business stuff will have better long term compensation prospects.

[whitwiki]

Tel him to go right into MBA or law school and avoid the extra $100k because having 6 degrees isn't worth it

[tristatecoog]

dirtysouth, a colleague of mine's son just enrolled in UT's M-Finance program. He was a solid student at UTD, probably like 3.7 GPA in political economy and high 600s GMAT/maybe 700. He tried to get into a PhD program at a Top 20 school with no luck. Then tried consulting and a few other solid jobs with no luck. This summer he switched course and went with the M-FIN program and UT had a spot and gave him a good discount off the list price which I believe is about $30K.

Cox has limited enrollment to one cohort because the U.S. interest isn't as strong as the International interest. I believe it's similar at UT and elsewhere. These MF students tend to be pretty quant focused but can find solid starting jobs out of there. Pay in $50s with high placement rate. I've been impressed with what I've heard from the UT kid's experience. Lots of focus on finding a job and good amount of work. Check out Cox, get the placement rates, cost, etc. and compare.

If your son can get into a Top 50ish law school, his prospects will be good to just go ahead with that. One still needs to finish in the Top 25% in the #40-60 type schools and top 25-50% at UT for a solid gig.

To the person that asked about UTD's MBA program, at my previous Fortune 100 company, I'd say it was a plenty fine stamp of approval if you want to stay at your current company and show that you took the time to get a graduate education. Not as good as SMU/UT-Austin PT programs but better than online stuff.

[LA_Mustang]

Interesting, tristatecoog. Thanks.

[dirtysouthpony]

Thanks tristate.

[PonyKai]

The transfer market is alive and well for law schools as well. If he only gets in to a number of T-2 schools, might be worth a look if he's willing to work. But don't expect to be able to transfer in to UT. Unlike many other law schools, they take very, very few transfers.

But it's still a gamble. I wouldn't wish upon an enemy graduated from a lower T-2 law school in this kind of market with the associated debt. And I started at one.